Ikko Ikki Ranged Ashigaru Useless

[Teutonic Ritterin]

Seriously!
even though the Ikko Ikki Bow Ashigaru has 200 Men,it makes fewer kills than the original Bow Ashigaru
and the Ikko Ikki Matchlock Ashigaru shot rarely hits his target.
is the Ikko Ikko Loan Sword Ashigaru,and Yari Ashigaru are the only "Cheap" unit I think that's very usefull.

[Honzou]

Well as I understand most Ikko Ikki units just rely on numbers. The Yari are useful only on the virtue that they are Yari units and they come in bigger numbers and the loan swords by virtue of being cheap sword units that have innate bonus melee attack.

[bkkm12]

yes, they are useless. those weak units from ikko ikki is not much better than any other clan. ikko ikki specialize in different types of monks units.

[Reeno]

True. but so what? Loan swords are extremely good, ikko would be broken if it didnt have some kind of weakness. Use bow ronins.

[NtRs. Hunter]

just make a ton of them, youll be good then(dont forget to upgrade them as well

[General Income Tax]

With boosts to accuracy I found them to be pretty effective, but still miles behind the bow monks let alone bow monks with accuracy bonuses.

Also if you give your bow ashigaru armour instead of accuracy they become highly effective against other bow ashigaru.

[sonicfani]

Yari wall, loan at flanks and some hiding in forests has saved me against more advanced samurai armies. Its all in how you use them.

[EmotionallyBroken]

They're cannon fodder. Their use is to take fire instead of your more valueable units taking fire. They also do "slightly" some damage, which is a plus for cannon fodder.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Ol' Slippery Stair:

With boosts to accuracy I found them to be pretty effective, but still miles behind the bow monks let alone bow monks with accuracy bonuses.

Also if you give your bow ashigaru armour instead of accuracy they become highly effective against other bow ashigaru.

I like my ashigaru with 9 armor.

[Mile pro Libertate]

It says on the clan selection screen that Ikko Ikki "can recruit large numbers of ashigaru - weak but with high morale."

To use ikki ashigaru effectively in the early portion of the campaign you have to fight your battles from a position of strength. That means defensive battles that take advantage of the terrain, and ambushes. Attempting frontal assaults with green Ikki ashigaru is asking for defeat against anything like an equal size enemy force, and that includes trying to outshhoot enemy archers.

If you can keep your Ikki archers behind mantlets or in tree cover, and within the aura of a general however, they will do well.

The game provides you with resources right from the start to make them much stronger: Kaga has armor upgrades and Echizen has fletchers to improve accuracy.

The real killers in an Ikki army, at least initially, are the Loan Swords. There isn't another base level unit that can do as much damage in melee for as little cost. Veteran Loan Swords with upgraded weapons and armor can give any enemy samurai a serious run for their money.

The best approach early in the game is to use ikki yari ashigaru very defensively, holding positions of good ground in spearwall, with the ikki bows providing support. The loan swords should be moved as a hammer against the yari anvil to hit the flank or rear in one, concentrated blow.

In many ways, the Ikko Ikki are anything but weak. They have many advantages that the other clans don't. Their generals have very good skills for increasing the morale and attack for the ashigaru, which when you combine that with their already high base morale and the buffs from an embedded Ikko monk, make them almost unbreakable as long as you don't handle them stupidly.

The ronin units are expensive and have less men than other clans' samurai, but their melee and defense are significantly higher from the get go.

If you take into account that you start off with two provinces, and you have access to oceanic trade right away, there are armor and fletching resources, and access to monks within the first few turns, you can see that it should be relatively easy to raise large, strong armies quickly.

After you crush several opponents in the early game, you should have a nice core of veteran and upgraded Ikki bow and yari ashigaru that can more than hold their own.

[easytarget]

And that pretty much wraps it up folks.

[Lancer176]

its basically a pawn until you send your knight or bishops in :)

[MrLiability]

Yeah, Milo about knocked it on the head... Ikko ashigaru (any ashigaru, really) aren't weak when used correctly. I'd rather have 2 samurai archer units over 4 ashigaru archers, but 4 Ikko Ikki ashigaru archer units.... that's a cubic buttload of arrows. Ain't no one getting sunburnt on that battlefield.

[Teutonic Ritterin]

I prefer the Bow Ronin/Monks,and the matchlock monks for skirmishing.
Also for all that will says "Ikko Ikko Loan and Yari Ashigaru are super useful"
I FREAKING LOVE THEIR LOAN SWORD ASHIGARU.
if you don't belive me,go to custom battle,and just see the Ikko Ikki Matchlock Ashigaru 10 Accuracy looks like,and how long their reload animation is.
and some of you will says that the Ikko Ikki Bow Ashigaru will make many arrow,but my reply will always be "how many arrow will hit the enemy?"



P.S Loan Sword ashigaru best unit

[Honzou]

Loan sword Ashigaru giving samurai units a run for their money when they are veterans with upgrades is not surprising considering 1 loan sword Ashigaru unit will outnumber the samurai. In this game swords are the defacto melee heavy hitters of this game outside of bombs, matchlocks, and siege weapon. While samurai units have better armor and overall stats, the samurai are always lacking numbers which in a way translate to overall less HP.

Personally outside of the Loan Sword Ashigaru, I rather prefer Oda Ashigaru since they are overall better, cost less, and they got good moral.

[MrLiability]

Originally posted by Akechi Misaka:

and some of you will says that the Ikko Ikki Bow Ashigaru will make many arrow,but my reply will always be "how many arrow will hit the enemy?"

Which is why I prefer samaurai/ronin over ashigaru.
But then again, when you've got a few hundred (or a few thousand) arrows aimed at an enemy, pinpoint accuracy is a moot point.