Total War: SHOGUN 2

Total War: SHOGUN 2

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No-Dachi, and Long swords has 0 Bonus against cavalry?
No-Dachi sword is even longer than Naginata, but Naginata has 10+ Bonus against cavalry.
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Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
HipperDino Nov 7, 2023 @ 12:13pm 
The sword is longer than a naginata? I dont think so
markeason Nov 7, 2023 @ 1:11pm 
The naginata was a polearm, up to ~2.5m in length - with another ~0.5m of blade on the end of it. That's 3m or 10 feet if you prefer in length.

I am not aware of any sword of that length as you would have to reach 4 feet above your head just to get it out of the scabbard :)
Björn Nov 8, 2023 @ 4:45am 
well they did find a sword for a giant in Japan (from 1477) but 99% of swords are smaller then a Naginata or Yari...
Pinglesshunting Nov 16, 2023 @ 6:43pm 
Originally posted by markeason:
The naginata was a polearm, up to ~2.5m in length - with another ~0.5m of blade on the end of it. That's 3m or 10 feet if you prefer in length.

I am not aware of any sword of that length as you would have to reach 4 feet above your head just to get it out of the scabbard :)

No Dachi , Tetsubo, is equal a spear.
Guts Nov 17, 2023 @ 8:32am 
I used to own a No-Dachi. It was as long as a spear., about 9 to 10 feet long. I think this is an oversight because western devs made the game. A claymore is a really big sword, but a no dachi is a spear with a really big blade, IMO.
miep miep Nov 17, 2023 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by N473:
I used to own a No-Dachi. It was as long as a spear., about 9 to 10 feet long. I think this is an oversight because western devs made the game. A claymore is a really big sword, but a no dachi is a spear with a really big blade, IMO.

But how do you grip a no dachi? Both hands close together on the hilt I assume. Meanwhile with a spear you can have a much sturdier grip with the hands further apart. You might be able to point with a no dachi like a spear and it might be close in length, but can it absorb a frontal hit like a spear could? A spear is alot better against cav charging into your formation. With a long spear you can even stick one end into the ground and hold it up with both hands at an angle. Cav charging into that spear will get impaled. Cant do the same with a no dachi.

This isnt about length. Spears are made for thrusting and can absorb blows from the front, while no dachis can not to the same extend.
Last edited by miep miep; Nov 17, 2023 @ 1:09pm
Guts Nov 17, 2023 @ 1:18pm 
Originally posted by miep miep:
But how do you grip a no dachi?
The handle is as long as an arming sword. You can't grip it with both hands close together. It's too heavy. Have you seen Sephiroth's sword in FF7? That's an accurate length for the blade of a no-dachi. And they were historically used as an anti-cavalry weapon. You could cut a horse in half.
Last edited by Guts; Nov 17, 2023 @ 1:25pm
miep miep Nov 17, 2023 @ 1:37pm 
Originally posted by N473:
Originally posted by miep miep:
But how do you grip a no dachi?
The handle is as long as an arming sword. You can't grip it with both hands close together. It's too heavy. Have you seen Sephiroth's sword in FF7? That's an accurate length for the blade of a no-dachi.

Those hands are still closer together than with a spear. Dont kid yourself. Also the hilt of a sword is at one end of the weapon meaning you hold the sword at one end. Meanwhile you can hold a spear in the middle giving you a much better grip for thrusting and shock absorption. Also the weight of the weapon isnt dragging you down as much when holding it more at the center, which lets you adjust where your pointing at faster. Cant believe I have to actually argue spear vs two hand sword against cav. The answer should be self evident.

Originally posted by N473:
And they were historically used as an anti-cavalry weapon. You could cut a horse in half.

Just because they were used a few times successfully doesnt mean they are better than spears. Historically spears were used against cav almost all the time.
Last edited by miep miep; Nov 17, 2023 @ 1:40pm
Guts Nov 17, 2023 @ 2:07pm 
Originally posted by miep miep:
Can't believe I have to argue spear vs two hand sword against cav. The answer should be self evident.
And I can't believe you still don't understand how large a no dachi is, and that you're arguing against it getting an anti cavalry bonus. Also, you're arguing with a person who owned one. They can definitely be used as a spear, and you're probably going to need to use the whole handle in order to wield it. This isn't a standard sword. The handle is as long as your arm. Take a look.

https://www.swordsofnorthshire.com/blogs/theblade/odachi-vs-nodachi
Last edited by Guts; Nov 17, 2023 @ 2:09pm
miep miep Nov 17, 2023 @ 2:43pm 
Originally posted by N473:
Originally posted by miep miep:
Can't believe I have to argue spear vs two hand sword against cav. The answer should be self evident.
And I can't believe you still don't understand how large a no dachi is, and that you're arguing against it getting an anti cavalry bonus. Also, you're arguing with a person who owned one. They can definitely be used as a spear, and you're probably going to need to use the whole handle in order to wield it. This isn't a standard sword. The handle is as long as your arm. Take a look.

https://www.swordsofnorthshire.com/blogs/theblade/odachi-vs-nodachi

You compensating for something or why is your only argument "it is long...very long"?
Also owning a weapon clearly doesnt make you an expert about it. Just 2 minutes of googling about odachi/nodachi told me, what I already suspected. Weapon was too big and cumbersome to wield. Unfit for mountain battles and and surprise attacks. Mostly replaced by - wait for it - SPEARS, normal katanas and guns. Weapon was mostly just used for offerings, ceremonial purpose and as a status symbol.

Anti cav usefulness on par with european Zweihänders, so not very good. Just because a weapon exists and was made for some theoretical purpose doesnt mean it was actually good at that task. So just another maus tank.
doneduardo44 Nov 17, 2023 @ 3:43pm 
No Dachi are effective against cavalry, despite the stats in the game and they do perform well against cavalry in this game. If that's all you got is sword units left, and your katana samruai are still holding on, and here comes a cav. unit. Pull that No Dachi out and put it on the cavalry unit. It works. But they should not have any kind of bonus for charge because you don't charge against cavalry you are using them like spears. If anything they should have a handicap.
Last edited by doneduardo44; Nov 17, 2023 @ 4:03pm
Sputnik Nov 18, 2023 @ 3:02am 
Maybe so. Wiki-P states they were used against cavalry.

But in RL pole-arms could be 'braced' against a cavalry charge with their their buts in the ground. and angled forward. Obviously that's not a piratical option with any length of sword.
Last edited by Sputnik; Nov 18, 2023 @ 3:14am
Björn Nov 18, 2023 @ 3:56am 
also, do you really think a spear and such a long sword weigh the same?? Would love to see you hold the sword up for 30 minutes... please use some commen sense
Pinglesshunting Nov 18, 2023 @ 4:24am 
Originally posted by Björn:
also, do you really think a spear and such a long sword weigh the same?? Would love to see you hold the sword up for 30 minutes... please use some commen sense
What is your end point of saying spear is lighter? Whose post are you referring to. Coz I am just asking for some bonus, Im not talking about which is better.
markeason Nov 18, 2023 @ 5:23am 
Originally posted by Sputnik:
Maybe so. Wiki-P states they were used against cavalry.

But in RL pole-arms could be 'braced' against a cavalry charge with their their buts in the ground. and angled forward. Obviously that's not a piratical option with any length of sword.

The impression I get is that they were used differently against cavalry than a spear type weapon.

Because the blade was supposedly used to strike down the approaching horse, it is probably better suited to smaller, more dispersed groups than those encountered in the Sengoku Jidai.
The massed bodies of men would be easier to train and equip with the yari, (point and brace) than developing the strength and skill to handle the largest of these blades which, by this time, appear to have become largely status symbols.
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Date Posted: Nov 7, 2023 @ 6:15am
Posts: 31