Will Shogun 3 come before Medieval 3?

[born to shit forced to wipe]

Thoughts?

[BIG E.]

Neither shogun 3 nor medieval 3 will happen.

[markeason]

Origineel geplaatst door BIG E.:

Neither shogun 3 nor medieval 3 will happen.

Is the right answer.

[ChaosKhan]

Origineel geplaatst door Mile pro Libertate:

Thrones of Britannia was really the last TW title, using the original formula. As EasyTarget said, that's about as honed as we can expect. Basically, Shogun 2, Attila and ToB are pretty much the peak of what you can expect with the original formula.

I know, some people don't really think about it, but Shogun 2 was the first ever Sage game. A very well done one, but still a Saga game, no matter how you look at it.

Now, the "original formula", has died after Med 1. Everything history related since Rome 1 has objectively been a long slog of a bad game, being succeeded by a slightly better game, which ultimately peaked in Attila and now in Pharaoh (I know, Pharaoh gets a lot of flak, but look at it objectively - it's because of the setting, not because it is really bad).

Now, don't misunderstand: The games were really good at the time of their release. There has been a pattern though, that plagued every single TW game since Rome 1 and stayed with it, while being slowly upgraded with every new iteration. Here a list of those things:

1. Pathing and collision. In Rome 1, Med 2, etc, soldiers had problems closing into melee, climbing siege towers or walls, etc. Huge issues there, that were only somewhat fixed in every following game. Even in Rome 2, soldiers would still regularily get stuck on walls, or freeze inside siege towers.

2. Broken campaign AI: Since Rome 1, the AI has been absolutely braindead on the campaign map. Senseless war declarations, incapable of true alliances, sieges forever with overwhelmingly superior troops or initiates attacks with vastly inferior armies. Absolutely terrible in Rome 1, it got better and better over time.

3. Started out without any sea battles, CA delivered quite nicely there. Empire did alright, Shogun 2 felt more deep and Rome 2 peaked there with full blown naval landings.

4. Shallow campaign mechanics: Rome 1 campaign was abysmally shallow. Deep overhauls like Europa Barbarorum did a superb job at improving some things, but in Rome 1 and Med 2, the campaign map was basically a "skirmish battle creator". Total War really came a long way since then with Pharaoh being clearly peak.

5. Shallow tactical battles. Let's look at it objectively: You put your ranged onto a hill, hide your cav in s forest nearby and camp a corner of the map. That's pretty much it. Funnily enough: Even Romans knew already, how to alterate and set up the battlefield, with constructed fortifications, trenched and ditches, supply camps, etc. Yet, in the game, even if you skill into it, even if you play defensively so you actually can use some of those features, they are done quite badly. Med 2 trying stuff there with some stakes on some specific archer troops. Rome 2 had some for settlements of you could spawn inside an easily assailable palisade walled fort if attacked due to a stance. Overall, super badly done and in no way even close to being as impactful or representative, as they historically were.
Again, Pharaoh peaks there.

As you can see, there was never a "historical TW", that really has "peaked", or "done it all". It was all a continuous upgrade of existing features and a long slog of trying to fix game breaking issues (maybe due to engine limitations). No matter how you look at it - Pharaoh is the natural "peak" of this continuity, even if it's limited by the setting and scale.

Origineel geplaatst door Cleanse my eyes mother:

Thoughts?

None of those.

In order to do those games justice, CA needs to create a new engine first. Trying to make them with the existing, ancient engine, would lead to a desaster.

If they try to release either based on either of the 2 existing engines, it would basically be CAs last game. A funeral rite.

If this is the way CA wants to "go out", then I suggest Shogun 3. CA started with Shogun 1, so the third installment would be a fitting "last release".

[easytarget]

You should really get some sleep.

[Black Hole]

I dont really plan on getting these games anymore they suck anymore.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Origineel geplaatst door Megatron:

I dont really plan on getting these games anymore they suck anymore.

Blame Warhammer. Nothing was ever the same after that.

Like I said earlier, nothing lasts forever...or maybe Axel Rose said that. Whatever.

Lol

[Seraphiel]

While I LOVE Shogun 2, they'd be mad to release S3 before Medieval 3.

Then again, with the way that CA has gone - I genuinely think they'll mess up M3 or S3 or pretty much anything historical they get their hands on.

[Björn]

why do all of you want a 3 in a total war game?? 3 kingdoms sucked and got dropped, warhammer 3 is the worst, most expensive game ever made by CA and all of you want another 3??

3 isn´t a good number for CA and should be avoided by them at all cost besides if Pharao is the best they can do it is better to close shop

[Black Hole]

lol 3 isn't a good number for just about anything few exceptions like god of war 3, gears of war 3, and halo 3 to name a few which turned out to be the best out of the games content wise at the time and then hard drops if they go any farther.

I imagine if valve did a l4d3 it would have sucked, same with half life for that matter.

[☀🐥Phonixis🐥☀]

Doubtful that it will ever release.

[Quizorp]

Origineel geplaatst door BIG E.:

Neither shogun 3 nor medieval 3 will happen.

this

[markeason]

Origineel geplaatst door Björn:

why do all of you want a 3 in a total war game?? 3 kingdoms sucked and got dropped, warhammer 3 is the worst, most expensive game ever made by CA and all of you want another 3??

3 isn´t a good number for CA and should be avoided by them at all cost besides if Pharao is the best they can do it is better to close shop

Sound advice - and five is right out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk

[-Evgeny_Prigozhin-]

Origineel geplaatst door Cleanse my eyes mother:

Thoughts?

Unfortunately, in the next 10 years, there will be no good Total War, much less Shogun 3. As long as there are Warhammer ♥♥♥♥ eaters, there will be no good historical games...

[bydlaq]

Origineel geplaatst door Tak:

s2 is already good enough, it doesnt nee a remake, medieval 3 needs one though its so old

Yea, i may be wierd but i enjoy Shogun 2 and FOFS more than Warhamer, and iam a guy who love fantase. Go figures

[Antonius]

Origineel geplaatst door ChaosKhan:

Origineel geplaatst door Mile pro Libertate:

Thrones of Britannia was really the last TW title, using the original formula. As EasyTarget said, that's about as honed as we can expect. Basically, Shogun 2, Attila and ToB are pretty much the peak of what you can expect with the original formula.

I know, some people don't really think about it, but Shogun 2 was the first ever Sage game. A very well done one, but still a Saga game, no matter how you look at it.

Now, the "original formula", has died after Med 1. Everything history related since Rome 1 has objectively been a long slog of a bad game, being succeeded by a slightly better game, which ultimately peaked in Attila and now in Pharaoh (I know, Pharaoh gets a lot of flak, but look at it objectively - it's because of the setting, not because it is really bad).

Now, don't misunderstand: The games were really good at the time of their release. There has been a pattern though, that plagued every single TW game since Rome 1 and stayed with it, while being slowly upgraded with every new iteration. Here a list of those things:

1. Pathing and collision. In Rome 1, Med 2, etc, soldiers had problems closing into melee, climbing siege towers or walls, etc. Huge issues there, that were only somewhat fixed in every following game. Even in Rome 2, soldiers would still regularily get stuck on walls, or freeze inside siege towers.

2. Broken campaign AI: Since Rome 1, the AI has been absolutely braindead on the campaign map. Senseless war declarations, incapable of true alliances, sieges forever with overwhelmingly superior troops or initiates attacks with vastly inferior armies. Absolutely terrible in Rome 1, it got better and better over time.

3. Started out without any sea battles, CA delivered quite nicely there. Empire did alright, Shogun 2 felt more deep and Rome 2 peaked there with full blown naval landings.

4. Shallow campaign mechanics: Rome 1 campaign was abysmally shallow. Deep overhauls like Europa Barbarorum did a superb job at improving some things, but in Rome 1 and Med 2, the campaign map was basically a "skirmish battle creator". Total War really came a long way since then with Pharaoh being clearly peak.

5. Shallow tactical battles. Let's look at it objectively: You put your ranged onto a hill, hide your cav in s forest nearby and camp a corner of the map. That's pretty much it. Funnily enough: Even Romans knew already, how to alterate and set up the battlefield, with constructed fortifications, trenched and ditches, supply camps, etc. Yet, in the game, even if you skill into it, even if you play defensively so you actually can use some of those features, they are done quite badly. Med 2 trying stuff there with some stakes on some specific archer troops. Rome 2 had some for settlements of you could spawn inside an easily assailable palisade walled fort if attacked due to a stance. Overall, super badly done and in no way even close to being as impactful or representative, as they historically were.
Again, Pharaoh peaks there.

As you can see, there was never a "historical TW", that really has "peaked", or "done it all". It was all a continuous upgrade of existing features and a long slog of trying to fix game breaking issues (maybe due to engine limitations). No matter how you look at it - Pharaoh is the natural "peak" of this continuity, even if it's limited by the setting and scale.

Origineel geplaatst door Cleanse my eyes mother:

Thoughts?

None of those.

In order to do those games justice, CA needs to create a new engine first. Trying to make them with the existing, ancient engine, would lead to a desaster.

If they try to release either based on either of the 2 existing engines, it would basically be CAs last game. A funeral rite.

If this is the way CA wants to "go out", then I suggest Shogun 3. CA started with Shogun 1, so the third installment would be a fitting "last release".

Shogun 3 on 3K total war engine would be ok.