How do you lot use guns?

[The Dark Spectacled Admiral]

Ignoring Fall of the Samurai where guns are amazing, I'm playing as the Otomo clan. A large portion of army is portuguese riflemen. I understand that bows have much longer range but I'm more than willing to take a few casualites and let my calvary take care of any enemy bowmen. But my strategy (it's what I used for Medieval 2) is to put my guns infront of my line let them get as many volleys off as possible then move them behind my line. Yet it seems that my guns take forever to fire and the enemy can run the 50 yards before my riflemen fire(I don't mean they can run 50 yards before they reload, I mean the time it takes them to aim their first shot!) . Am I doing something wrong? (this strategy worked well in medieval 2) Or perhaps other people have a different more effective use of riflemen that I don't know about.

Sorry for the long text. All I want to know how do you guys use matchlocks, and any tips to maximize their firepower.
Thanks

[Mikaelmorgansjodin]

muscets takes longer to reload.and after u move them behind your troops,u cant use them.they dont shoot over there troops like bows.

[Actual Boomer]

usually at the range , but sometimes i just walk off my back porch and take a shot at a tree.

Honestly how i use my guns is none of your buisness sir , MERICA.

[The Dark Spectacled Admiral]

Originally posted by Mikaelmorgansjodin:

muscets takes longer to reload.and after u move them behind your troops,u cant use them.they dont shoot over there troops like bows.

I am completely speechless. I know all of that. That has very little to do with what I had asked.

[The Dark Spectacled Admiral]

Originally posted by Jerry:

usually at the range , but sometimes i just walk off my back porch and take a shot at a tree.

Honestly how i use my guns is none of your buisness sir , MERICA.

♥♥♥♥ dude, I want to be as funny as you when I grow up. Wish to give me some pointers?

[Actual Boomer]

Originally posted by Comes Orientis Irnys:

Originally posted by Jerry:

usually at the range , but sometimes i just walk off my back porch and take a shot at a tree.

Honestly how i use my guns is none of your buisness sir , MERICA.

♥♥♥♥ dude, I want to be as funny as you when I grow up. Wish to give me some pointers?

Here's a pointer
Translate this on google.

Me chupan pollas grandes durante todo el día ya que mi padre me late

[easytarget]

Yep, I put them out in front, get as many volleys off as I can then move them behind.

Also, since bow as you mentioend have a bit more range I don't go all guns, I use a mixture.

My guess, you're using them as effectively as they can be in Shogun 2, they just aren't all that great. For me, the most fun playing Otomo is the ease with which you can incite riots, one preist can wreck a clan, and the nanban trade ships making it easy to rule the sea lanes.

[The Dark Spectacled Admiral]

Originally posted by easytarget:

Yep, I put them out in front, get as many volleys off as I can then move them behind.

Also, since bow as you mentioend have a bit more range I don't go all guns, I use a mixture.

My guess, you're using them as effectively as they can be in Shogun 2, they just aren't all that great. For me, the most fun playing Otomo is the ease with which you can incite riots, one preist can wreck a clan, and the nanban trade ships making it easy to rule the sea lanes.

I see, thanks. It's just sometimes I feel that my riflemen take an absurdly long time just to aim their rifles and sometimes wont get a single shot off before the enemy infantry reaches them. You ever have that?

[easytarget]

I agree, they ultimately don't seem to be all that effective because they take forever in between volleys, pretty annoying. But then I suppose those guns did take a long time to reload. So I just roll with it and mix in bows so I can effectively whittle away the enemy before we go full melee.

Which is why I've sometimes for that very reason left them behind the line and putting bows out front, then I just focus the guns on particular targets I want to decimate once they are engaged in melee with my front line, I've found the friendly fire isn't that bad and it tends to do a pretty decent job of routing the units you focus fire on.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by easytarget:

I agree, they ultimately don't seem to be all that effective because they take forever in between volleys, pretty annoying. But then I suppose those guns did take a long time to reload. So I just roll with it and mix in bows so I can effectively whittle away the enemy before we go full melee.

Which is why I've sometimes for that very reason left them behind the line and putting bows out front, then I just focus the guns on particular targets I want to decimate once they are engaged in melee with my front line, I've found the friendly fire isn't that bad and it tends to do a pretty decent job of routing the units you focus fire on.

Funny thing the real samurai (when they did use guns) usally maanged to get off around three volleys against a mass of charging infantry before they swapped out for yari to take them on. So yes muzzle loaders suck, but I think the game is nerfing them for some reason. Oda Nobunaga even managed to get good use of them against cavarly. Ok it rained and the Takeda assumed it ruined his gunpoweder so it was more of catching them off gaurd then his guns being able to fend off cavarly alone (Nobunaga had this genius idea of using umbrella-like covers for his gunpowder...)

[Teutonic]

sometimes the matchlocks dont even fire lol, the units just stand there glitched or something

[Julius Geezer]

Pretty sure that fire by ranked is bugged for the musket units in vanilla which delays or even stops them from firing before enemies reach them.

If you aren't doing this already, I'd advise not activating fire by rank, and instead spread their line as much as possible to have the most men firing at once.

[BastardSword]

They are ok but imo their relative high time/money cost means they aren't worth it compared to bows. Massed bow ashigaru or bow samurai will obliterate a good 1/4th to 1/3rd of an AI army before they get charged down. Matchlocks have a shorter range so they are always in more danger and need to be babied more.

Seems to me that the best thing they can do in an open field battle is cause morale drops. I like to have one or two matchlock units in front of my bows, so the guns and the bows are both in range of the enemy. I cause some morale fear with the guns, and bait out the enemy so they charge in. I pull the guns back and let the bows do their work, then pull them back too and send in my naginata samurai to mop up the weakened enemy.

Matchlocks are also very good in a castle defense but so are bows especially in the late game. Honestly again I find matchlocks need too much handholding for their higher cost and recruitment time sink. They are fun to play with but bows are all around more reliable I think, but that's just my opinion.

[Mikaelmorgansjodin]

Originally posted by Comes Orientis Irnys:

Originally posted by Mikaelmorgansjodin:

muscets takes longer to reload.and after u move them behind your troops,u cant use them.they dont shoot over there troops like bows.

I am completely speechless. I know all of that. That has very little to do with what I had asked.

u only asked 1 question!!!i quote:Am I doing something wrong? (YES)
then u say and i quote:Sorry for the long text. All I want to know how do you guys use matchlocks, and any tips to maximize their firepower. (its no question mark on it,but NO)

bad post.
your speech back yet?

[The Dark Spectacled Admiral]

Originally posted by Mikaelmorgansjodin:

Originally posted by Comes Orientis Irnys:

I am completely speechless. I know all of that. That has very little to do with what I had asked.

u only asked 1 question!!!i quote:Am I doing something wrong? (YES)
then u say and i quote:Sorry for the long text. All I want to know how do you guys use matchlocks, and any tips to maximize their firepower. (its no question mark on it,but NO)

bad post.
your speech back yet?

Yes, that was a horrible post. I stated that "All I want to know [is] how do you guys use matchlocks, and any tips to maximize their firepower." All you told me is that-
1. Muskets take longer to reload (NO SH*T)
2. After you move them behind your line, they will begin friendly fire (NO SH*T)
3. Bullets don't arc ( NO SH*T!)

Every tip you stated is something that everyone knows and none of it is a. A strategy for how to use musketmen or b. Tips on how to maximize firepower . So I gave the only just response possible. " I know all of that. That has very little to do with what I had asked."

Your post was not helpful, hurt my eyes to read, and if that upsets you, I'm not sorry. Now please give some tips that aren't insulting or ♥♥♥♥ off. I don't care.

*edit: Furthermore you claim that ":Am I doing something wrong? (YES)" ie. You beleive I am doing something wrong. But no, according to the many other people who have been so kindly helping me, it seems that I am using musketmen pretty well and they are simply rather buggy.

[The Dark Spectacled Admiral]

Originally posted by Great Caution:

Pretty sure that fire by ranked is bugged for the musket units in vanilla which delays or even stops them from firing before enemies reach them.

If you aren't doing this already, I'd advise not activating fire by rank, and instead spread their line as much as possible to have the most men firing at once.

I'm kind of surprised that your right. I tried making my line 2 ranks deep instead of 3 and disabling kneel fire and that seemed to help a lot, thanks a lot for the advice.