Which Total War has the best mechanics and AI?

[SpiteAndMalice]

Hey guys, I'm thinking to pick up one of the Total War games. I haven't played any of the modern titles and I'm just wondering which title you'd recommend based on Mechanics/AI.

Aside from that, lack of bugs matters to me (I'm guessing that the older titles will have had these fixed a long time ago) and I'm none too fond of DLC, I'd rather just buy a game and play it.

On the flip side, graphics aren't really something important to me for a game like this, I'm in it more for the strategy.

I can see that there's Demos for this, Medievil and Empire total war so I'm checking them out to see how they run, but I'd appreciate recommendations.

[Destin Faroda]

Definitely Medieval II. It features:
- two settlement types: towns and castles
- more than six building slots
- good battle mechanics with proper mass
- climate has an effect on troops
- superior modding capabilities
- a proper addon with interesting campaigns instead of simple faction DLCs
- as an old game, it's not very resource-hungry (but make it large address aware nonetheless)

The M2TW AI can pull off decent battles and sieges. Besides, the AI is moddable, so we now have great CAIs like Savage and BAIs like ReallyBadAI. Warscape's AI however ... It seems to get worse with each game.

[Tricosis]

Is the Shogun 2 AI aids? Yes indeed. But that applies for basically all Total Wars that I've currently played. Its hard designing a strategic AI when there will always be ways to trick it in a way you couldn't with a human. In the beginning, the AI might seem fairly good and all when you're inexperienced, but once you gain some experience and gets to know it, you'll find ways to exploit it. I prefer playing with another player instead of against the AI as it makes the game far more strategic. No matter which Total War you get, I highly recommend having a friend to play Head to Head with instead of the original campaign. This will allow him to control the AI in any battle you might face. So will you for him. This eliminates the AI problem completely.

Altough it might sound biased, I would recommend Shogun 2 the most. Atleast if you are new to Total War. The reason is simple, its easy to get into and it has a good balance between melee and ranged infantry. It isn't like Rome where you can just spam heavy melee infantry and win, or Napoleon or Empire where all you need is line infantry and a few cannons, and thats it. Shogun 2 will punish you if you dont have a balanced army. Shogun 2 forces you to use both ranged and melee infantry, instead of just needing one. Thats what I love about it. No big rifle lines or melee spam. Here you need to use both strategically, which is why I highly recommend it.

[SpiteAndMalice]

I take your point completely about AI being exploitable and not matching up to a human opponent. In general I do quite enjoy PvP, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for here, at least not initially. I want to learn the game first, with just a degree of challenge so that it doesn't feel like a cakewalk. I also like to pause a lot whilst I'm sussing out games like this (I'm one of those slow/deep thinkers), something that I don't imagine is a great deal of fun for a human opponent.

What are CAI and BAIs? Is it campaign/battle AI or am I going up the wrong street?

[Tricosis]

Originally posted by SpiteAndMalice:

I take your point completely about AI being exploitable and not matching up to a human opponent. In general I do quite enjoy PvP, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for here, at least not initially. I want to learn the game first, with just a degree of challenge so that it doesn't feel like a cakewalk. I also like to pause a lot whilst I'm sussing out games like this (I'm one of those slow/deep thinkers), something that I don't imagine is a great deal of fun for a human opponent.

What are CAI and BAIs? Is it campaign/battle AI or am I going up the wrong street?

I get what you mean about stopping the game whilist thinking. I tend to do that quite a few times against the AI too. But this isn't exactly a slow paced strategy game. This is live action war. You will have to think fast and react to dangers faster than your opponent. Thats part of the fun in it. Military strategist couldn't exactly sit around taking their time whilist in a battle. They had to think fast. If you have a friend whom you play with, you could always find times to pause. What I believe would work better for you tho will be a co-op campaign. During battles, your friend will be second in command, leading a section of your army. You'll get more and more used to it as time progress. If you are new, the AI isn't really a big deal. You only really start to notice it once you're experienced and more than used to think fast.

I recommend that you get the game, play against the AI until you feel comfortable to take it to the next level. Then you can play the campaign with a friend of yours. If you're extra hardcore, you could participate in tournaments. In the end, play the game however you enjoy. Would love to see you aboard, but its your decission! It offers an experience unlike any other strategy games I've tried. Now is the sale, so I advice you to make a decission fast.

[waxman80014]

Rome Attila, the AI in Shogun total war makes some strange decisions.

[SpiteAndMalice]

Originally posted by ts:

Originally posted by SpiteAndMalice:

I take your point completely about AI being exploitable and not matching up to a human opponent. In general I do quite enjoy PvP, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for here, at least not initially. I want to learn the game first, with just a degree of challenge so that it doesn't feel like a cakewalk. I also like to pause a lot whilst I'm sussing out games like this (I'm one of those slow/deep thinkers), something that I don't imagine is a great deal of fun for a human opponent.

What are CAI and BAIs? Is it campaign/battle AI or am I going up the wrong street?

I get what you mean about stopping the game whilist thinking. I tend to do that quite a few times against the AI too. But this isn't exactly a slow paced strategy game. This is live action war. You will have to think fast and react to dangers faster than your opponent. Thats part of the fun in it. Military strategist couldn't exactly sit around taking their time whilist in a battle.

I'll just point out that whilst I might on occasion resemble Napoleon, that I am not in fact he. ;-)

Seriously, I think it's each to their own with games like this when it comes to pacing/fun. I play a bit of chess and see that some people much prefer to play a fast game with a timer, I'm on the opposite end of the scale and can happily spend an hour looking at a board whilst I work out my next move. The 'fun' for me comes from making that analysis, when I'm a position of having to make fast decisions I actually find it quite stressful. I can play and win that way, but I don't enjoy the experience.

I think with the Total War games I'd actually love a play mode which was PvP but worked like those old play by mail games where you had to submit orders and then sit back and watch things unfold for a minute before you could assign the next set orders. That would also be a good simulation of a real battlefield situation as depending upon your time period there could be delays between a leader's orders being issued and their troops responding to them.

But unless somebody comes back and says 'a ha! we have modded that game mode already' I'm going to go the route of PvE for a good while.

Playing co-op is a nice idea, as is finding a friend that's also happy to pause... I just worry that I'd win through atrophy given the speed that I prefer to play at ;-)

You're right about that quick buying decision though... I'm keeping an eye on the clock there :-)

[insolent1]

Originally posted by SpiteAndMalice:

Aside from that, lack of bugs matters to me (I'm guessing that the older titles will have had these fixed a long time ago) and I'm none too fond of DLC, I'd rather just buy a game and play it.

CA has form in leaving their games bug infested, pre ETW they only did 2-3 patchs.
M2TW and RTW have an excellent modding community, which have done great work in improving the AI and expanding gameplay/mechanics.
ETW was left in terrible state, it has a really bad siege bug which makes most(if not all) siege battles unplayable. Iirc NTW fixed it but they should have passed on that fix to ETW.
As it is you have to use a mod that removes walls so there are no sieges.

[Björn]

Shogun 2, medieval 2 or Rome 1 are the best in the series for me.

campaign gives you time to think since the campaign map is turn based. So building, training units, planning expansion,... are no problem at all

battles are real time but can be paused. So getting use to the battles shouldn´t be a real problem either.

Just pick the time period you like the most and enjoy. With the sales going on this weekend i would buy the packs that contain the dlc. Will give you a lot more units and playable factions if a newer game and extra campaigns if one of the older games.