Trade resources

[Imhotep]

I've done some reading, but am still not understanding trade resources (timber, stone etc).

So if I build a Lumber Camp, I get +6 tonnes of high-quality timber. Are these single-use items, or do they replenish?

The only use I can see for trade resources is building very high-tier buildings, which I would have thought would only be available to build later in the game. What is the use for trade resources earlier in the game?

Do these provincial trade resources travel by ship on trade routes?

[Krono]

If you have a building that provides timber, you now have access to timber all across your territory and can build any buildings that require timber. Upgrading the building gives more timber for export, so if you have trade deals it'll give you more money.

Originally posted by Imhotep:

Do these provincial trade resources travel by ship on trade routes?

For use in your own territory, no. If a different faction has access to a resource you need and you start trading with them, that resource would go along that trade route and you would no longer have access if either of your ports gets blockaded.

Having a resource from one of the 6 trade nodes around the map also gives you straight money in addition to the export potential, so it's always recommended to get 10 trade ships on each of those when possible

[Red Spot]

For trade with other factions you need to have road access meaning your empires needs to have mutual borders ... or ... a free port that can trade (1 port per faction you trade with that you have no land connection with).

[waxman80014]

Its not too complex, if you produce copper, wood ect don't worry how much you produce. I am hoping in there is ever a Shogun 3 that will be fixed.

[Imhotep]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm still not understanding how quantity works.

Is it like this?

I build a Lumber Camp which gives me six tonnes high-quality timber. The highest-tier ship-building ports, Drydocks, require Timber to build. So I could build a Drydocks in six cities.

Or I could trade the timber. If I sell one tonne of timber to a neighbour, they keep it permanently in their storehouse until they use it to build Drydocks. Even if I go to war with them, that timber is still in their storehouse.

Since trade resources are used to build highest-tier buildings, the AI will do trades for this stuff earlier in the game for use later in the game, even if they have no use for it at the current time.

Is any of that accurate? Maybe not, since exporting the trade resources along trade routes doesn't fit into it.

[Krono]

Originally posted by Imhotep:

I build a Lumber Camp which gives me six tonnes high-quality timber. The highest-tier ship-building ports, Drydocks, require Timber to build. So I could build a Drydocks in six cities.

If you have a timber building, you can build as many drydocks as you want. This also applies if you're trading with somebody else that has timber, you can build as many drydocks as you want until the trade gets interrupted.

Originally posted by Imhotep:

Or I could trade the timber. If I sell one tonne of timber to a neighbour, they keep it permanently in their storehouse until they use it to build Drydocks. Even if I go to war with them, that timber is still in their storehouse.

More timber means more xport for trading with partners. If you have 6 timber, you get 200 gold per turn let's say (I can't remember how much timber is actually worth). If you upgrade that building and are now getting 12 timber, you're now making 400 gold per turn from selling timber.

The AI can build drydocks as long as they're trading with you, but they don't store any. If your trade gets interrupted, they will no longer be able to build drydocks. For both yourself and AI a drydock will finish building if you were already in the middle of making one when you lost access to timber.

Originally posted by Imhotep:

Since trade resources are used to build highest-tier buildings, the AI will do trades for this stuff earlier in the game for use later in the game, even if they have no use for it at the current time.

Yes, the AI is more likely to trade with you if you have trade resources, even if they won't actually be using it yet. If it's a resource they want, they'll want to trade with you even more to get that resource and you can likely ask them to pay you money for a trade agreement.

Certain factions might like certain resources better, for example the Ikko Ikki like incense since it's required for certain buildings of theirs. All the AI in the game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LOVE horses for some reason, if you get access to horses and can export them the AI will pay you thousands of gold to get that trade agreement.

[Imhotep]

Originally posted by Krono:

Originally posted by Imhotep:

I build a Lumber Camp which gives me six tonnes high-quality timber. The highest-tier ship-building ports, Drydocks, require Timber to build. So I could build a Drydocks in six cities.

If you have a timber building, you can build as many drydocks as you want. This also applies if you're trading with somebody else that has timber, you can build as many drydocks as you want until the trade gets interrupted.

Originally posted by Imhotep:

Or I could trade the timber. If I sell one tonne of timber to a neighbour, they keep it permanently in their storehouse until they use it to build Drydocks. Even if I go to war with them, that timber is still in their storehouse.

More timber means more xport for trading with partners. If you have 6 timber, you get 200 gold per turn let's say (I can't remember how much timber is actually worth). If you upgrade that building and are now getting 12 timber, you're now making 400 gold per turn from selling timber.

The AI can build drydocks as long as they're trading with you, but they don't store any. If your trade gets interrupted, they will no longer be able to build drydocks. For both yourself and AI a drydock will finish building if you were already in the middle of making one when you lost access to timber.

Originally posted by Imhotep:

Since trade resources are used to build highest-tier buildings, the AI will do trades for this stuff earlier in the game for use later in the game, even if they have no use for it at the current time.

Yes, the AI is more likely to trade with you if you have trade resources, even if they won't actually be using it yet. If it's a resource they want, they'll want to trade with you even more to get that resource and you can likely ask them to pay you money for a trade agreement.

Certain factions might like certain resources better, for example the Ikko Ikki like incense since it's required for certain buildings of theirs. All the AI in the game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LOVE horses for some reason, if you get access to horses and can export them the AI will pay you thousands of gold to get that trade agreement.

Thanks for the info.

What does the number mean in "6 tonnes"?

Is a trade one tonne? So I could keep one tonne for myself and build an infinite number of Drydocks, and make five trades with neighbours for one tonne each, and they could build an infinite number of Drydocks?

Or does one have an infinite amount of timber to trade, and the 6 is just an arbitrary number, with the increase in tonnage production through building improvement just manifesting itself in an increased export income bonus?

[Telvido_cat]

The number only applies to the amount you can sell. If you upgrade a trade resource you acquire more revenue when traded. Some trade resources are more valuable than others - I can't remember which but I think crafts, silk spices are up near the top of the list. Trade nodes cannot be upgraded but the amount of goods sold is proportional to the number of trade ships on the node. The maximum trade ships / node is 10 and there are diminishing returns with each new ship.

Warhorses have additional value. Intentionally or otherwise many clans who have warhorses will not trade with you if you don't already have this resource - not for free anyway. Furthermore, if have warhorses clans without them will pay a flat fee for the resource. When negotiating trade deal always ask for money up front too. The AI will sometimes pay thousands of koku for trade particularly if you have warhorses and they don't or they're missing spices/silk late game. Think most I got was 35k up front from Ashikaga clan

Other things with trade to consider is that trade routes must always go through your capital. The maximum number or trade routes you can have is limited to the number of trade ports that have a direct land route to your capital. So the Chosokabe are limited to 3 for example, which is one of their main limitations. The only way to change this would be to build a nanban trade port in Tosa +1 route, and either become Christian or deal with the increase in Christianity some other way, or move your capital to Honshu - which if difficult and unpredictable.

The last thing I can think of with trade perhaps worth mentioning is that there is a mechanic that allows you to recoup trade income from unsold goods (think they're sold to Chinese or Korean traders or something). This is not too important but if goods are traded with a clan whose port is perpetually being blockaded (zero income) cancelling the trade agreement might be worth considering even if there is nobody else to trade with.

[Imhotep]

Originally posted by Telvido_cat:

The number only applies to the amount you can sell. If you upgrade a trade resource you acquire more revenue when traded. Some trade resources are more valuable than others - I can't remember which but I think crafts, silk spices are up near the top of the list. Trade nodes cannot be upgraded but the amount of goods sold is proportional to the number of trade ships on the node. The maximum trade ships / node is 10 and there are diminishing returns with each new ship.

Warhorses have additional value. Intentionally or otherwise many clans who have warhorses will not trade with you if you don't already have this resource - not for free anyway. Furthermore, if have warhorses clans without them will pay a flat fee for the resource. When negotiating trade deal always ask for money up front too. The AI will sometimes pay thousands of koku for trade particularly if you have warhorses and they don't or they're missing spices/silk late game. Think most I got was 35k up front from Ashikaga clan

Other things with trade to consider is that trade routes must always go through your capital. The maximum number or trade routes you can have is limited to the number of trade ports that have a direct land route to your capital. So the Chosokabe are limited to 3 for example, which is one of their main limitations. The only way to change this would be to build a nanban trade port in Tosa +1 route, and either become Christian or deal with the increase in Christianity some other way, or move your capital to Honshu - which if difficult and unpredictable.

The last thing I can think of with trade perhaps worth mentioning is that there is a mechanic that allows you to recoup trade income from unsold goods (think they're sold to Chinese or Korean traders or something). This is not too important but if goods are traded with a clan whose port is perpetually being blockaded (zero income) cancelling the trade agreement might be worth considering even if there is nobody else to trade with.

Thanks for the additional info.

I'm still not getting the numbers part. If having access to a trade resource allows one to build an infinite number of trade resource-specific buildings, such as Drydocks, then why would a clan buy more than one unit of the resource at a time? A fully-upgraded Prime Forests/Lumber Camp produces 43 tonnes of timber. Surely that doesn't mean I can trade timber with 43 clans?

Also, if a trade resource cannot be stockpiled in the storehouse, and is only available while a trade deal is active, why would a clan buy any resources until later in the game, when they have the technology/funds to actually build the high-tier buildings that need the specific trade resources?

[Telvido_cat]

That's the way it goes mate you're over thinking it. It's a fighting game not a trading game.