Is Takeda really this hard? are allies reliable?

[NouH]

Okay, i started a campaign with the Takeda, and i took the capital from the enemy to the north that you start against, that's when things started to go down hill (I think the name is North Shinano), what happened is, after i captured North shinano, i got a message that said Uesugi was going to attack me, and he had like 4 allies with him, when he declared war against me, none of his allies joined his side, so i thought it wouldn't be that hard to fight him, what happened next is that at every turn, ALL neighboring factions started declaring war against me, and i was attacked by 3 full stacks each turn (1 stack from each faction) and was forced to defend north shinano for more than 10 turns, each turn a full stack was coming in from the borders, i managed to defeat them all since i upgraded all buildings with troops replenishment before uesugi declared war on me so i was able to fend off most attacks, i guess this is one of the unpredictable moments in this game, most people say that allies aren't reliable and they tend to stab you in the back, my army defending north shinano was in tatters, 2 more turns and i would lose my campaign the last army that sieged north shinano was the worst of them all, 2 full stack from uesugi, 1 from the enemy faction from the right, and a half stack from the enemy faction from the left, since uesugi had more than 3 samurai bows and a lot of archers, they managed to deal the most damage of all attacks i had dealt with, by the end of the battle from 3k strong army defending shinano (This was at the start) only 700 was left, all units had less than 50 men, and most of them were so experienced that they had better stats than samurais, while i was expecting another full stack to arrive next turn and destroy all the effort i had defending north shinano, my 2 allies started steamrolling every enemy faction that was attacking me (They joined war against all enemies that attacked me), so they were invading and conquering their lands while they were trying to take north shinano from me, this is one of the strong points of this game in my opinion, i love when allies actually behave like allies, when they try to help you and fight alongside you, while playing i had that feeling of ''dammit another lost campaign'' just to see my allies helping me was amazing, and now i have a LOT of respect to Imagawa (They joined against all the factions that attacked me, that in total was more than 5 factions), for a ally to join you against more than 4 invading forces and actually help you is something i never experienced in a total war game.

I was only, and i say ONLY able to get a break from all those full stacks because imagawa and hojo was my allies, Imagawa ALONE managed to get more than 8 provinces, 2 of them being enemy factions that was sending full stacks against north shinano, he was dominating the entire left side while hojo was conquering everyone up from the right, i know its a good thing but, because of all those attacks i suffered, at turn 20+ i only have 2 provinces because i needed a full stack defending against that horde of enemies so i had no time to expand and conquer, what i really fear now is that, since most people says that diplomacy isn't reliable in shogun 2, i fear that my allies will backstab me, Imagawa is so strong right now (My ally) that he could declare war against all neighboring factions he met and win against them all.

So i fear that if my allies backstab me, it won't take 5 turns to imagawa or hojo to send full stacks against my faction, is there a way to reliable make a alliance last long, and how to do so?

I just wanted to share this experience i had while playing, i had a lot of fun, and i mean a lot, defending north shinano, I was literally playing for like 3 hours, and all that time was just defending the same city against hordes of enemies just for my allies to actually help me in the end, the best thing of it all was seeing full stacks from Imagawa and Hojo entering my territories to invade my enemies, it was like in those movies were people fight with the intent to lose just for a unexpected ally to come help you right in time.

Ps: i'm not a native speaker so if you find any bad grammar, i hope you don't mind.

[Mile pro Libertate]

No neeed to apoligize for your English...it's 'more good' than a lot of native speakers' is :P

Yeah, Takeda can be very hard initially.

It was good that you covered your lower flank with allies. Having no allies at all is simply not an option for Takeda, or Hojo, as many people sadly discover the hard way.

[Kusarigama]

No Allies is not that bad the BIGGEST threat for me on Legendary was the Usuegi. You take N Shinato and they come foaming at the mouth. The most convienient ally and stay with you until RD is the Oda. Vassal them or just Ally them and the campaign becomes that much easier.

You also have the option (I do this sometimes) is completely ignore N Shinato and blitz the Hojo for the gold mine and blacksmith while trying as hard as I can to make the capital a Fortress. I consider the Takeda one of the best clans because of the Fire Cavalry and the fact you are right in the middle of Japan.

[NouH]

Originally posted by Kusarigama:

No Allies is not that bad the BIGGEST threat for me on Legendary was the Usuegi. You take N Shinato and they come foaming at the mouth. The most convienient ally and stay with you until RD is the Oda. Vassal them or just Ally them and the campaign becomes that much easier.

You also have the option (I do this sometimes) is completely ignore N Shinato and blitz the Hojo for the gold mine and blacksmith while trying as hard as I can to make the capital a Fortress. I consider the Takeda one of the best clans because of the Fire Cavalry and the fact you are right in the middle of Japan.

Yea, Uesugi was the biggest problem in Takeda's campaign, at least for me, once Uesugi declares war on you, he drags all his allies with him, so you're forced to fight 4 factions at the same time or more, giving you no time to counter attack.

[NouH]

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

No neeed to apoligize for your English...it's 'more good' than a lot of native speakers' is :P

Yeah, Takeda can be very hard initially.

It was good that you covered your lower flank with allies. Having no allies at all is simply not an option for Takeda, or Hojo, as many people sadly discover the hard way.

Thx, but is possible to create a lasting alliance with the AI? with no backstab even after realm divide?

[rory.b.p]

Originally posted by NouH:

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

No neeed to apoligize for your English...it's 'more good' than a lot of native speakers' is :P

Yeah, Takeda can be very hard initially.

It was good that you covered your lower flank with allies. Having no allies at all is simply not an option for Takeda, or Hojo, as many people sadly discover the hard way.

Thx, but is possible to create a lasting alliance with the AI? with no backstab even after realm divide?

Depends on difficulty and how quickly you can win after RD.
Marriage + Trade + A long alliance and many wars together you can keep an ally after RD till completion as long as you aren't turtling.
On legendary it is more difficult and not helped by what I believe to be scripted betrayels as some clans seem to by default always turn on you even on lower difficulties with marriage etc. (for example if you are playing as another clan and ally takeda they seem to inevitably turn after RD).

As for a taked campaign I actualy try to go south first as the Uesugi can end up in wars on multiple fronts if you don't give them a direct link to you in the begining and the gold and blacksmiths to the south can be invaluable.
Also if at all possible I tend to avoid fighting defensive sieges as takeda and take on enemy armies in the field, I go down what I would call the hero tree with my general (boosting bodyguard numbers, morale, defence, etc) and having the Fire Cav unit early on helps.
In battles I focus on tying down the enemies main force then going for general assasinations with Cav or just using cav to bait parts of their army away from the main fight.

[shiggies713]

if you don't mind a little cheese, Takeda is one of the easiest clans. Ripe to sell military access to just about everyone. Plus a full cav army is totally devastating led by takeda.

[Kusarigama]

Full cavalry is a foolish idea since the AI spams Yari Ashigaru and Samurai like its going out of style. If you have the micro a Bow Cavalry army is one of the most beautiful and effective armies in Shogun 2 (there is a reason why its banned in MP). But Fire Cav spam or Yari Cav spam in SP is horribly cost ineffective.

[shiggies713]

full cavalry could be all bow cav you know... though tbh once you get that its game over. AI can't deal with that.

[rory.b.p]

Originally posted by Kusarigama:

Full cavalry is a foolish idea since the AI spams Yari Ashigaru and Samurai like its going out of style. If you have the micro a Bow Cavalry army is one of the most beautiful and effective armies in Shogun 2 (there is a reason why its banned in MP). But Fire Cav spam or Yari Cav spam in SP is horribly cost ineffective.

Fire Cav can actually be super cost effective its just a time waste, they are one of maybe 2 cav units in the game that can basically charge head first into spears and still win the battle (although that is a waste because unit loss).
But all you really need to do with any cav army is bait units away and then use mobility to take them down 1 or 2 at a time... the battles are drawn out but the casualties are fairly low.


But if you aren't limiting yourself to a pure cav build then Fire Cav are devastating and you can win battles in short order.

Step 1 get your ashigaru into the frontline.

Step 2 take 1 or 2 units of fire cav and punch them through the front line at points of your choosing, they can now go for the enemy gen or start attacking from the rear and their sphere of influence is boosting your ashigarus morale while scaring the crap out of the enemy.

Optional Step 3 Move 1 or 2 naginata warrior monks to where the weak points are and warcry... enjoy mass route.