Matchlock vs bow

[Rollout]

other than shooting "on visual" or in an arc
is it armorpeircing vs range that makes the big difference?

[easytarget]

Just out of idle curiosity, besides longer range do bow users reload faster?

I've no idea, because in Shogun 2 I never bother using matchlocks.

[Danny in Space]

They arent really comparable and you should have both. If you had to choose one it should be bows. Guns can be great if you want to micro manage them. They are also great in siege defense.

[Yellow]

They can both be good but i personally prefer bows, mainly because i came to Shogun 2 from 1000+ hours of Napoleon playing "competitive", so if i wanted more gun-smoke, i would have stayed there :P
Another reason i don't use matchlocks, is because for a long period of time they were crazy OP so i still have some resentment towards them.

That said, they can be very good, mainly because of their morale chock! I would say that is hands down their biggest pro.

[BastardSword]

Matchlocks are only really useful when defending a castle. In an open field battle they can only get one shot off before the AI charges them and that's not enough to cause morale shocks. Then if you pull them back behind your melee troops, they can't shoot over your guys, but bows can. Best to stick with bows or get fire rockets which take forever to research but at least they have really long range and can fire over your guys.

[Enrlich Hartman]

Well in fall of the samuray you dont really have choise and you will end up using them. they are great if you exploit formation and reload rates.
They are weak in situations of melee combat and cant help at all , bows can
On other hand they are really good in a rush build because they practically kill in each salvo so they are better in fast combats .

[solidap]

Bow ashigaru don't have armor piercing. Bow samurai and monks do have armor piercing but firearms ignore armor completely. Firearms can also break targets' morale. Matchlock ashigaru have terrible accuracy, reload speed, and morale though. Which makes them almost worthless in a field battle but still can be devastating in siege defense. Matchlock samurai and monks are more accurate and have more morale but I don't believe they are more accurate or reload faster than bow samurai and monks

Like someone else said you'll always want some bow samurai/monks in your army. In later stages of the game, bow ashigaru will barely scratch samurai units. Even matchlock ashigaru will destroy samurai units but their poor stats and morale mean they're pretty much done as soon as units get into melee range or cavalry so much as sniff at them.

[Ashina]

Originally posted by solidap:

Bow ashigaru don't have armor piercing. Bow samurai and monks do have armor piercing but firearms ignore armor completely. Firearms can also break targets' morale. Matchlock ashigaru have terrible accuracy, reload speed, and morale though. Which makes them almost worthless in a field battle but still can be devastating in siege defense. Matchlock samurai and monks are more accurate and have more morale but I don't believe they are more accurate or reload faster than bow samurai and monks

Like someone else said you'll always want some bow samurai/monks in your army. In later stages of the game, bow ashigaru will barely scratch samurai units. Even matchlock ashigaru will destroy samurai units but their poor stats and morale mean they're pretty much done as soon as units get into melee range or cavalry so much as sniff at them.

It has been debunked that Bow Samurai doesn't have armor piercing, they just have better accuracy, and both Bow Samurai and Ashigaru have the same projectile, basic arrows with 150 range, bow monk have the same arrow but with 175 range.

Chosokabe Daikyu Samurai have a different projectile, which deals like 50% more damage than normal.

Walls gives matchlock units on them a literal lines of fire where all of them can fire, and a decent reload speed increase.

Bow Samurai and Bow Monk in late game is good, but you can't keep on having them in all of your armies, ifyou seen some people playing the campaign, in the later stage they will still use Bow Ashigaru since they're cheaper and can be upgraded especially in accuracy.

[Rollout]

Originally posted by Ashina:

Walls gives matchlock units on them a literal lines of fire where all of them can fire, and a decent reload speed increase.

does the reloadspeed increase work on the other ranged units aswell? like kishio ninjas on walls?

Originally posted by Enrlich Hartman:

they are great if you exploit formation and reload rates.

exploit formations? :O

[Boom Boom]

hi

[Ashina]

Exploiting formation is like destroying a line of units and get a charge, the enemy unit will get a surrounded morale debuff due to some of your men charging past the line and you will get a charge bonus which means that melee is basically won.
Easier said than done.

[Rollout]

Originally posted by Ashina:

Exploiting formation is like destroying a line of units and get a charge, the enemy unit will get a surrounded morale debuff due to some of your men charging past the line and you will get a charge bonus which means that melee is basically won.
Easier said than done.

some new things to try here i see, i took it out of context but is it possible to increase the firerate with the formations? or is it just reffering to how many "rows" that can fire at the time while others reload? i mean instead of one big volley from 2 rows and do 4 rows that do a more rapid fire?

[Ashina]

Matchlocks are rarely used in mass in this game even with the rank fire ability its just too slow.

And Rapid Fire used by the Matchlock Samurai are often still slow due to the enemy is already on their face but with walls rapid fire ability can help.

But if you're meaning like swapping units like 1 unit of matchlocks fire and run back to reload and then another unit fire, don't do it in real battles, you have more units that need micromanagement that could win the battle, such as light cavalry killing the enemy general.

[Synavix]

Originally posted by Ashina:

Bow Samurai and Bow Monk in late game is good, but you can't keep on having them in all of your armies, ifyou seen some people playing the campaign, in the later stage they will still use Bow Ashigaru since they're cheaper and can be upgraded especially in accuracy.

Why can't you just use them? Is it just cost? I'm really just starting out after the free giveaway, but I've tried the game once or twice before (on just normal difficulty), and the core of all my armies near the end were accuracy upgraded Bow Monks and regular yari ashigaru. I really liked the bow monks since the AI was usually dumb enough to let you pick them off wtth the longer range, and win most battles before the charges even started.

[Ashina]

Originally posted by Synavix:

Originally posted by Ashina:

Bow Samurai and Bow Monk in late game is good, but you can't keep on having them in all of your armies, ifyou seen some people playing the campaign, in the later stage they will still use Bow Ashigaru since they're cheaper and can be upgraded especially in accuracy.

Why can't you just use them? Is it just cost? I'm really just starting out after the free giveaway, but I've tried the game once or twice before (on just normal difficulty), and the core of all my armies near the end were accuracy upgraded Bow Monks and regular yari ashigaru. I really liked the bow monks since the AI was usually dumb enough to let you pick them off wtth the longer range, and win most battles before the charges even started.

If you have good economy, go for it, while bows are probably easier to get because of bow master dojo doesn't need a resource, and bow Ashigaru is just cost effective in range, while bow samurai can be used for melee if you have them upgraded.

[Enrlich Hartman]

Originally posted by Rollout:

Originally posted by Ashina:

Walls gives matchlock units on them a literal lines of fire where all of them can fire, and a decent reload speed increase.

does the reloadspeed increase work on the other ranged units aswell? like kishio ninjas on walls?

Originally posted by Enrlich Hartman:

they are great if you exploit formation and reload rates.

exploit formations? :O

If you have the time read this guide , explain Big part of the matchlock engine in game .
Somenthing i didnt found is the guide where they explain you cant upgrade much more the reload speed in matchlocks because they are bound to an animation so you cant speed up the reload more than certain limit so is better just upgrade acuarcy so you secure more kills per salvo.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1518017515