Tokugawa break vassalage?

[Knightmage Bael]

I've been making unreasonable demands to them every turn. Their modifier is now at like -700 against me and they still wont declare war.

I don't want to declare war on them because I don't want the negative diplomatic impact, especially with all my trade agreements.

[acornco]

its really iffy. i think the start up seed is a factor. but for the most part, nope. they wont declare war on you... with exception.


for instance, encapsulate their territory. this is the only time i managed to get them to declare war on me and forced them to end my vassalage. it was early game and i took suruga, izu and sagami as soon as they went to war with hojo or whoever starts out with those provinces.

they always go to war with that clan and always try and take those provinces... so i was ready and i just snatched em up.

in turn, imagawa relations went south really fast... they ended up declaring war on me... so i just backpeddled over them. i don't think i had military access with them, i used boats to do an end run around their provinces.

i had planned on snatching those territories, i had not planned on imagawa declaring war... cought me off guard and almost cost me an early game rage quit... but i rolled back, barely fought them off, and deleted their main army by capping their last province... im cheap like that when i have to be...


but thats the exception. in practice, every tokugawa player will tell you 20 tales about how theyve endlessly abused, exploited and tormented the imigawa to no avail.

[Knightmage Bael]

Kinda makes you want to just take the diplomatic hit, doesn't it? Though that sorta nullifies your own bonuses for a while.

[Hat8]

Originally posted by Archmage_Bael:

I've been making unreasonable demands to them every turn. Their modifier is now at like -700 against me and they still wont declare war.

I don't want to declare war on them because I don't want the negative diplomatic impact, especially with all my trade agreements.

Are you the Tokugawa? Try leaving a city vulnerable to bait them into attacking you?

[acornco]

Originally posted by Archmage_Bael:

Kinda makes you want to just take the diplomatic hit, doesn't it? Though that sorta nullifies your own bonuses for a while.

the most common tactic i use is to destabilize their economy through agent actions and let a 3rd party destroy them. but yeah, you can take the diplo debuff. its bad but not awful.

more often i don't mind basking in their shade. even upto midgame. they can act as a pretty good buffer against aggressive clans. rofl... rule from the shadows....

[Knightmage Bael]

I wound up using a monk to cause unrest, and that seemed to work pretty decently.

[Ready. Steady. Fighty.]

I beat it on Legendary a few weeks ago. My strategy was to peace out with Oda after defeating their army, then declaring war on Imagawa, and expanding east and north by fighting Takeda and then Hojo.

I kept a stack in the starting province and ended up fending off several attacks from Oda, peacing out after killing off their stacks. Eventually I formed an Alliance with them which lastrd til realm divide.

Diplomatic hit is really not that bad. Especially once you get War Horses province. The biggest issue is hapiness penalty, but that can be circumvented with Heroic Victories, research and retainers.

[Svaard]

send them koku,it lasts so many turns as a positive effect with them,or thier allies for long term,sound like hes going to attack you:)