About Ronin Units

[Ashina]

Me and Valentina is talking about the Ronin Units for her Massive unit mod,and kinda questioning this idea:
-I think Ronin should cost 50% More than it's samurai counterpart,but has -50% Upkeep from it's samurai counterpart.
-She Think that Ronin should only need 1 turn to train,since they're just Samurai who lost their lord.

and we just struct with awkward silence,to think that Ronins in vanilla games should be more expensive to recruit,easier to manage,and only took 1 turn to make,but can't repress population(in some extend,makes the population angry[can anyone help with this XD])

[rory.b.p]

You could simplify it and just run them like mercenaries.
Instant training (not 1 turn) med-high cost, extremely high upkeep (they aren't getting land or any other benefits so they would be payed more for their loyalty).
Negative rather then angry populace could be an increased chance of assasination to the general in whoms army they are or an increased chance to succesful actions against city's they are garrisoned in.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Yeah they are mercs and should be treated as such imo.

- Instant recruit.
- High upkeep
- Normal or even less initial recruit cost.

I think they should still have the same public order effect as normal samurai.

[Krono]

As the others have said, make them available for everyone as mercenaries with a high upkeep. Then I figure they should be less expensive for the Ikko Ikki, since that's supposed to be their thing and all

[Richard]

The word rōnin literally means "wave man". It is an idiomatic expression for "vagrant" or "wandering man", someone who is without a home. The term originated in the Nara and Heian periods, when it referred to a serf who had fled or deserted his master's land. It then came to be used for a samurai who had no master. (Hence, the term "wave man" illustrating one who is socially adrift).

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Richard:

The word rōnin literally means "wave man". It is an idiomatic expression for "vagrant" or "wandering man", someone who is without a home. The term originated in the Nara and Heian periods, when it referred to a serf who had fled or deserted his master's land. It then came to be used for a samurai who had no master. (Hence, the term "wave man" illustrating one who is socially adrift).

I see what you mean. It is kinda misleading or a misuse of the term. We associate ronin with "mercenary" but the Sengoku daimyo and samurai wouldnt have understood it like that.

It had more nuances than we typically give the term, and really, hiring ronin was more of an Edo Period thing than a Sengoku thing, if we want to be technical about it.

Probably a much better term for "ronin units" in the game would be akuto or (depending on region) wako.

But those terms don't have the familiarity or image that ronin has associated with it, so I can see why CA went with it.

[Krono]

Originally posted by Mile pro Libertate:

I see what you mean. It is kinda misleading or a misuse of the term. We associate ronin with "mercenary" but the Sengoku daimyo and samurai wouldnt have understood it like that.

It had more nuances than we typically give the term, and really, hiring ronin was more of an Edo Period thing than a Sengoku thing, if we want to be technical about it.

Probably a much better term for "ronin units" in the game would be akuto or (depending on region) wako.

But those terms don't have the familiarity or image that ronin has associated with it, so I can see why CA went with it.

Well, it does make some sense that a wandering warrior with no master would be interested in mercenary work. There are only two ways to make a living with a sword after all: taking money from others or getting paid by somebody else to use it

[Mile pro Libertate]

Yes. The thing is, "mercenary" typically has a negative connotation in most societies where they've existed.

Being a ronin didn't mean a guy was a "sell sword," or would even think about being one. Many ronin didn't have swords or weapons anyway because they sold them to get out of financial trouble subsequent to losing their master lol.

On the other hand, it was impossible to be considered akuto and to not be armed, and the idea was that akuto were always living by their arms, either by brigandage or by mercenary work.

This didn't stop people from accusing others who were not akuto from being akuto to slander them, or as a slur, but the slur worked because it carried that connotation.

But a ronin could be making his living in other ways, like teaching, craftsmanship, laboring or whatever.

So the connotation for ronin was different. It wasn't necessarily a slander to accuse someone of being ronin, because people knew that honorable and valuable men became ronin in various ways that didn't necessarily reflect on them, such as losing their master to disease or something.

It wasn't assumed if someone was samurai without a lord that he was looking for a new lord, let alone to serve a lord by fighting.

He might have been something else to his former master, like an estate manager or in charge of the clan's mint, but was samurai nonetheless.

Akuto were guys who lived by their swords, as opposed to samurai who carried 'swords in service' but didn't necessarily use them, or even know much about using them to begin with :D

[Krono]

That's interesting, thank you. Akuto definitely does make more sense in this context then

[Mile pro Libertate]

Sure thing :)

I guess the best comparison I can come up with is thw European feudal sargent and the man at arms.

Samurai were like sergeants: they served for their pay or land, but it wasnt necessarily martial. A sargent who lost his overlord wouldn't necessarily seek out military service, and he might be poor at it anyway and not even be wanted for that kind of work.

A man at arms lived by fighting, or being ready to fight, so a group of masterless men at arms, like a "broken lance," was understood to be looking for one type of work: fighting.

Like akuto, they could resort to brigandage from time to time. I guess the European term villain, as used in the late Middle Age, would be pretty close to akuto.