Ashigaru keeps getting routed? :(

[Divine]

Won a previous game by using only shimazu katana samurai. No other units.

So now im playing as oda and trying to win with a pure melee ashigaru army.

Problem is they seem to rout very easily even though theres like 33% of them or more remaining, especially when fighting against katana samurai.

Can i somehow stop this? :P

[Syndicake ☠]

Abuse ninjas army sabotage ability to gain a big advantage on campaign map.

Ashigaru mainly rout for a few reasons:
1. When they are fighting without a general nearby. (this happens least frequently but you have to be careful because they have low morale.)
2. When they are fighting against elite troops that are slaughtering them like katana samurai. (losing and concerned over casualties)
3. When they get flanked by other units (this can be just having a cav unit walk up 20 feet behind them. (this is the big one and most often causes ashigaru armies to collapse. You HAVE to keep your flanks secure when fighting with ashigaru. Put samurai or preferably anti-cav cavalry on the flanks.
4. When nearby units of ashigaru are wavering/routing.
5. Ashigaru archers begin wavering almost instantly when engaged in melee. This can cause chain rout very easily so dont take too many archers. Unless fighting the AI. Then you want a ton of archers because they camp on hills.
There are some exceptions: Skirmish line. You can send archers ahead of your army and set a fall back point. They will get slaughtered probably but if they are far enough away your army won't care. They will retreat to whatever point you set with your general. Then you can send them up again to harass the enemy until they are all dead. Same as above but you can put them in ambush spots in forest at the far edges of your flank. This occupies and delays enemy cavalry sometimes.

[Monostatos]

Here is an interesting tidbit. Morale can be increased by layering your units in thicker lines, making them "blockier". This way the front can hold longer since they will be given a bit more morale than if you put them in a thin rectangle formation.
However, long lines have a very nice advantage over the hardier blocks, and that is that they are able to envelop units and damage their morale.

A block is good as frontline, because it will not rout, but will over time be grinded down. If you manage to flank with a thinner line however, and manage to envelop the samurai, they will rout instead. Thinner lines can also semi-envelop blocks of samurai (from the sides like a ball in a soft bed), that as a result, may rout if the ashigaru themselves recieve moral support from a general, monk or upgrade.

Spear walling ashigaru, unless flanked, will also fight samurai fairly effectively, and has in many instances won over their more elite adversaires in battles i've played.

So formations will help you along. Given how you play as the Oda, properly positioned ashigaru will be even more effective than usual. Good luck!

[Syndicake ☠]

This makes it sound like it pays to play offensively and try to flank the enemy using your numbers as an advantage. But its actually not. If you are playing as ashigaru army, you probably wont have cavalry. But you kind of need them to intercept the enemy and stop them flanking you. Trying to flank the enemy can end badly too since one on one the enemy can flank and beat you with minimal losses - cav charges on the wings. I recommend using your extra numbers defensively to extend your line and make it harder to flank you. This is because the flanking morale mechanics can be very finicky and you can end up getting flanked. If you are fighting a regular army it won't matter to them they can withstand the morale penalty but your ashigaru might break. If the flanks break, and run that can cause a chain rout sadly easily.

So theoretically true, if you massively outnumber them you can surround them and win easily but it can backfire if the armies are more evenly matched. Or they have cav and you donut.

Tbh I think you are better off just getting some experienced samurai and cav on the wing and using them to intercept enemy cavalry.

[Divine]

Originally posted by Monostatos:

Here is an interesting tidbit. Morale can be increased by layering your units in thicker lines, making them "blockier". This way the front can hold longer since they will be given a bit more morale than if you put them in a thin rectangle formation.
However, long lines have a very nice advantage over the hardier blocks, and that is that they are able to envelop units and damage their morale.

A block is good as frontline, because it will not rout, but will over time be grinded down. If you manage to flank with a thinner line however, and manage to envelop the samurai, they will rout instead. Thinner lines can also semi-envelop blocks of samurai (from the sides like a ball in a soft bed), that as a result, may rout if the ashigaru themselves recieve moral support from a general, monk or upgrade.

Spear walling ashigaru, unless flanked, will also fight samurai fairly effectively, and has in many instances won over their more elite adversaires in battles i've played.

So formations will help you along. Given how you play as the Oda, properly positioned ashigaru will be even more effective than usual. Good luck!

Thanks i didnt know thicker lines actually help :)

However, i noticed that the ai likes to spam archers who take cover behind enemy samurai. I end up trying to flank the enemy, especially the melee samurai to oblivion which usually fails by then becacuse my troops will rout.

In turn, all my ashigaru gets routed quickly. how am i supposed to get them to reach the archers instead without fighting the samurai? :P

[Teutonic Ritterin]

Originally posted by Germanyball:

Originally posted by Monostatos:

Here is an interesting tidbit. Morale can be increased by layering your units in thicker lines, making them "blockier". This way the front can hold longer since they will be given a bit more morale than if you put them in a thin rectangle formation.
However, long lines have a very nice advantage over the hardier blocks, and that is that they are able to envelop units and damage their morale.

A block is good as frontline, because it will not rout, but will over time be grinded down. If you manage to flank with a thinner line however, and manage to envelop the samurai, they will rout instead. Thinner lines can also semi-envelop blocks of samurai (from the sides like a ball in a soft bed), that as a result, may rout if the ashigaru themselves recieve moral support from a general, monk or upgrade.

Spear walling ashigaru, unless flanked, will also fight samurai fairly effectively, and has in many instances won over their more elite adversaires in battles i've played.

So formations will help you along. Given how you play as the Oda, properly positioned ashigaru will be even more effective than usual. Good luck!

Thanks i didnt know thicker lines actually help :)

However, i noticed that the ai likes to spam archers who take cover behind enemy samurai. I end up trying to flank the enemy, especially the melee samurai to oblivion which usually fails by then becacuse my troops will rout.

In turn, all my ashigaru gets routed quickly. how am i supposed to get them to reach the archers instead without fighting the samurai? :P

1. I know that you're trying to only use Oda Yari Ashigaru.
2. There's a Loose Formation button,use it when your ashigaru is attacked,to minimize the missile damage
3. Have Some Reserve,Bro.
4. 20% Yari Ashigaru in Front,60% in Middle,and 20% in Reserve
-the front will eat the arrow like a Anime girl performing Ahegao,while the 40% will not be peppered with Arrows
-the Middle will be the main battle line
-The Reserve is the flankers,or a Reserve Force in case your ashigaru is out of luck

[Vile Beggar]

4 thick lines of yari ashigaru in spear wall with each line consisting of 4 ashigarus, 2 generals for morale or 1 general and 1 ashigaru to chase bow, don't know if it will work but there is something in me enjoying the view of endless yari wall

[tiberiansun371alexw]

It gets worse than that.

I once was playing Oda. I had a mod that let's everyone recruit dunberbuss cav, but the Otomo dunderbuss shot at vanilla fate of fire and anyone else had triple the reload time and a bit less accruacy,

Now in one section of the battlefield, I had 3 Oda Yari Ashigaru with 9 experience, 1 Oda Yari Ashigaru with 4 experience, 1 Oda Long Yari Ashigaru with 3 experience, 2 Oda Yari Ashigaru with 3 experience, and 1 Oda Yari Ashigaru with 1 expeirnece. The enemy (Takeda) brought 6 bow samurai, 1 matchlock samurai, 1 dunerbuss cav (with its nerf for not being Otomo) and 1 Yari cavalry. My bows were doing something else, so they weren't here. My general was the only cavalry I had and I placed him to encoruage the ashigaru.

Now, with all this expeirnece, I would expect to close the distance and win. The custom battle cost of my units greatly exceeded theirs (so I outclassed them), altohugh I was in campaign mode. I had the numberical advantage.

My guys walk up, and they get butchered by the arrows and bullets. The yari cavalry charged into my 3 experience unit before I was ready and after I ate 3 volleys of guns and lots more arrows. i didn't have enough time to deploy yari fall, so I braced them in standard block formation agaisnt the cavarly. My men didn't rout, but they took heavy casulties. I tried to surround the cavalry with my toher units, but the enemy kept shooting. Eventtually my army in that sector was cut to peices.

And again, I had all that expeirence too!