Oda late game problems

[Milfner]

I've been playing the oda in campaign recently and everytime I hit realm divide i get overrun from both sides.Even If i do manage to conquer the "right" side of the Island I get constant beach landings and my forces are unable to get there in time. Im playing the hard difficulty.
Any help or tips?

[Milfner]

thank you all for the advice,hopefully now I'll be finally able to get going with the invasion on kioto

[Geroiko]

First of all, you should build armies consisted ONLY of Ashigaru units and nothing else. Long story short, Ashigaru units are the most efficient military units in the game (especially with the bonuses that Oda clan gets) and you can easily complete your campaign by utilizing only Ashigaru armies and nothing else. The best Ashigaru composition is the 12-7-1 (12 Yari Ashigaru, 7 Bow Ashigaru, 1 General). Effective use of Yari Wall will make the difference when you defend sieges against superior units. Also later on in the game, if you attack an enemy castle (or simply an enemy) that has a full stack army (20 units), with just 2 full stacks of the Yari composition I mentioned above you will always win by auto-resolving (even on Legendary difficulty). So keep that in mind for later on once you can filed full stacks and make sure to attack full stack armies with an additional stack (if you face one full stack, then force a 2v1 battle, if you face two full stacks then force a 3v2, so on and so forth).

With regards to buildings, your first priority is to upgrade the farms, then Roads and then build Markets and Sake Dens. Do not upgrade Market and Sake Den any further because they are cost inefficient plus the upgraded Market consumes one food, which is bad. Overall, you will only need to upgrade farms and roads and maybe Sake Dens but much much later in the game when gold is not an issue. Bring out Metsukes and make sure you always have the maximum 5 of them out with focus in Overseeing Towns (from the talents), because they will make you huge amounts of gold. Upgrade only the castles that will be your main defending points (I mention below more info about that).

Regarding Mastery Tree, the best route is the following: 1) Way of Chi, 2) Todofuken, 3) Equal Fields, 4) Zen, then 5) Bushido, 6) Strategy of Defence, 7) Way of the Spear, 8) Strategy of Attack, and finally 9) Way of the Bow. After you get these 9 basic talents it doesn't matter that much what route you follow next. Ideally you would go deeper into Bushido tree and focus on the left side to get Heaven and Earth, Spear Expertise, The Five Elements, Sojutsu Mastery. The reason you want to go for that is in order to boost your Yari Ashigaru units. As for General's talents, the 3 that you need are the following: 1) Strategist, 2) Infantry Leader and 3) Ashigaru Commander.

I am not aware in what direction you expanded in your campaign but the most strategic points in the center of Honshu Island (the big one) are the following: Owari (your starting town as Oda), Settsu and Wakasa (as well as Echizen although it is a bit more distant for reinforcement to arrive in a signle turn early on). If you can seize these provinces and keep control of these key points and reinforce them with backup forces, you will be in control of the whole middle Honshu and then you can decide which way to expand (south or north, usually north but it depends on how the AI have reacted so far and the specific circumstances of your game).
My advice would be to defeat Tokugawa in Mikawa early, make them your vassals and defend them from Imagawa attacks for a few turns until Tokugawa has a decent army to fend for themselves. Moreover, most of the times you get the opportunity in turn 1 or turn 2 to negotiate with Saito clan in Mino province (the one north of your starting province in Owari) and ask them to become your Allies and Vassals. So you end up with two vassals very early on (especially Tokugawa who is a very good meatshield until you trigger Realm Divide and they turn against you) and +2 honor for your Daimyo. Don't botheer signing an alliance treaty with Kitabatake because they are good for nothing and they will only drag you into war with Tsutsui or Hattori very early on. Omi province should be your first priority after vassalising Tokugawa. Keep good relations with Hatano and Hatakeyama while you sweep Tsutsui and Hattori clans from the face of the earth, and the you can start dealing with the other 2.

Once you capture these key points (as well as Kyoto too), play defensively and focus on building your economy (which means upgrading farms and building markets in each province you own) while defending what you already own. Once you have built your economy (around 5 years is usually the sweet spot assuming that you switch between normal and very high taxes every other turn) you should start fielding more armies and begin your conquest. The ideal is to field 3-4 full Yari stacks (20 units in total of the composition I mentioned in the prologue) and send them to conquer everything towards one direction of the map. Whenever you capture a new province destroy any unnecessary buildings such as Archery Dojo, Samurai Dojo etc and build Sake Den first (for the +2 happiness bonus) as well as Markets only if you can afford them. Do not bother upgrading castles. Once you conquer the whole North or South repeat the same steps to conquer the remaining enemy territory.

As for navy, unlike in Fall of the Samurai where a navy is a must to win (at least in Legendary), in Shogun 2 it is not really needed to build a navy at all. Building a navy is cost inefficient and redundant. Sure, you may get invaded a few times when you trigger realm divide, but you can easily repel that by recruiting Yari Ashigaru from anywhere and defending the province in question. The AI follows certain patterns and invades certain provinces only according to my extensive experience in legendary. So, repeling them is not a big deal even if they come with a full stack and you have only 7-10 units inside a Fort. Last but not least, most of the times you can see the ship with the invading army way before it inades your lands when you press "Next Turn" and you see the AI movements on the map. There are very few occassions where you don't get any notice.

All in all, as long as you are decisive, follow the advice I wrote here and you don't trigger Realm Divide before you have the necessary military power to start your crusade, you are going to be absolutely fine.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to PM me!

[shiggies713]

i personally think best opening technology research is

1) way of chi
2) todufuken
3)bushido
4)stategy of attack
5) way of the bow
6) equal fields

That is literally how i open every single game up regardless of clan. Equal fields is pointless to rush to, can't afford terrace farms that early anyways, so get the -5% upkeep from todufuken and move on to rush fire arrows is my policy, then come right back to it when I can actually afford the terrace farms.

overall nice advice though, cheers.

[Teutonic Ritterin]

İlk olarak Kon tarafından gönderildi:

If you have any questions don't hesitate to PM me!

Can I ask you:
-What is better for Craft Line,Bow Maker,or More Craft?
because at my state in the mori campaign,the Craft Goods are so valuable that most of my trade income comes from Craft.
-Encampment upgrades for Defense?
Encapment upgrades do pass on to your Garrison units,but what is better?
1.Armor Upgrade is good for your bow Ashigaru Garrison
2.Attack Upgrade once saved my castle,my bow ashigaru just shrecking the enemy Yari Samurai.
3.Accuracy Upgrades only affect bow ashigaru,so all of my garrison units are Vanilla,but once in a siege,my Bow Ashigaru garrison with Accuracy Upgrades,and Additional upgrades from my Bowmaker 50 Accuracy Total,and with some help from some of my Bow Samurai which is their recruitment center 65 Accuracy,my archer just shreck the enemy when they're trying to climb the last section of the walls,not shooting the ones who're climbing,but killing a tons that are waiting below.

[Geroiko]

İlk olarak shiggies713 tarafından gönderildi:

i personally think best opening technology research is

1) way of chi
2) todufuken
3)bushido
4)stategy of attack
5) way of the bow
6) equal fields

That is literally how i open every single game up regardless of clan. Equal fields is pointless to rush to, can't afford terrace farms that early anyways, so get the -5% upkeep from todufuken and move on to rush fire arrows is my policy, then come right back to it when I can actually afford the terrace farms.

overall nice advice though, cheers.

Well, it is mostly dependent on the starting region of your clan and its surroundings. For instance, the Takeda and Hojo home provinces and their surroundings are comprised of only average, meagre and barren fields so Equal Fields is not efficient to rush there as you will not make as much profit by upgrading your farms. Going for the route you mentioned is a good choice then.

On the other hand, Date, Oda, Hattori, Ikko-Ikki and Shimazu (even Chosokabe simply because of the bonus they get from the farms even though Shikoku island has only Average fertility) are in a good position to utilize upgraded farms so Equal Fields should be rushed in these cases.

[Teutonic Ritterin]

Ok now,Every Shoguns Know that the best tactic is.

Spam 19 Bow Cavalry+1 General.
if you have the time,try it.

[Geroiko]

İlk olarak Sylveon tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Kon tarafından gönderildi:

If you have any questions don't hesitate to PM me!

Can I ask you:
-What is better for Craft Line,Bow Maker,or More Craft?
because at my state in the mori campaign,the Craft Goods are so valuable that most of my trade income comes from Craft.
-Encampment upgrades for Defense?
Encapment upgrades do pass on to your Garrison units,but what is better?
1.Armor Upgrade is good for your bow Ashigaru Garrison
2.Attack Upgrade once saved my castle,my bow ashigaru just shrecking the enemy Yari Samurai.
3.Accuracy Upgrades only affect bow ashigaru,so all of my garrison units are Vanilla,but once in a siege,my Bow Ashigaru garrison with Accuracy Upgrades,and Additional upgrades from my Bowmaker 50 Accuracy Total,and with some help from some of my Bow Samurai which is their recruitment center 65 Accuracy,my archer just shreck the enemy when they're trying to climb the last section of the walls,not shooting the ones who're climbing,but killing a tons that are waiting below.

There are only 4 provinces in the whole map that have Craftwork: Buzen, Hoki, Echizen and Hitachi. If you happen to control one of them the best thing you can do is to focus on more accuracy for your Bow Ashigaru, therefore Fletchers and Master Bowmaker. Upgrading them for more craft is way too cost inefficient. But even Fletchers are expensive very early on so I would suggest to not touch Craftwork upgrades until you capture 5-7 provinces and decide to stall the campaign and build your economy. That or if you are lucky enough to get a huge amount of gold by selling 20-turn military access to nearby clans with sufficient integrity and getting that extra gold to upgrade these buildings.

With regards to Encampent and Smithing upgrades and, hence, Attack vs Armor bonuses, this has been an on-going debate since the game came out. There is some math involved here but without wanting to write a huge wall of text, the general consensus is that bonus armor is slightly better for Yari Ashigaru units while bonus attack is slightly better for other type of units. Again, there are many variables that influence that decision, but at least for Yari Ashigaru more defense is marginally better. As for Bow Ashigaru, bonus accuracy from encampment is the way to go.

Overall, the Ashigaru-only strategy is good and effective because you can hire them from any province without building pre-requisites. So my advice would be to not bother that much with upgrading Encampments because these units are expendable. Sure, if you have a province that provides Craftowrk or Smithing (e.g. Shimazu starting province in Satsuma) then you benefit from it, and if you have the gold then upgrade your Smith or Fletchers. However, do not tunnel-vision on these provinces and do not expect to hire and replenish all your armies from the province that provides these perks or the one in which you built an encampment.

[Eat3n]

Oda strategy:

Conscerning the "right side" i never go past the original Hojo held cities. That way you have the mountains as a buffer and can only really get attacked from 1 side. Try and use choke points when you can, then you don't have to worry about multiple armies from multiple areas. Don't neglect your vassals they can create a nice buffer for you AND any lands they take add to your numbers.

For ships: Depending on how spread out your empire is i like to have 2-3 full stack naval fleets of big boys to fight. Try to find areas that have "pennisula" type areas like the tip of Izu, or the bottom tip of Kii,. The reason for this is that enemy ships only sail in paths, they won't really go around into the "deep" waters where they will accrue casualties (like when it's winter and your army is in an enemy land). So what i like to do is get a lot of cheap small ships and sort form a chain extending from the tip of the region down to about the area you start taking "winter kill". 1) Those ships can act as scouts so if they see and enemy ship, move your big boy fleet to fight. 2) Some times the enemy ships will try and sail around taking casualties which is good if they were spotted and you send a fleet after them. 3) In the even they do attack your ships it will slow them down giving you time to send your fleet to fight.