How to defeat agent spam

[Killroy]

Playing campaign on hard.
Have about half the map, land and sea. I have many armies and a decent income a turn. My oponent is only one Clan, being that the second one only has one or two provinces, but is losing money.
But I keep losing Generals to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level 1 assasins

No matter how many Mesukes I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ have, they are either killed by the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ assasin spam, or they get turned by one of the 10 monks my enemy has (I am not using a mod and yet the AI has a ♥♥♥♥ ton of ninja and monks).
I kill the assasins, get a high level nija, monk, or mesuke.
Then they themselves are killed by an enemy agent of the same type of level 0.

Seriously, I know the AI starts to cheat in this game after a certain difficulty. But this success rate is starting to piss me the ♥♥♥♥ off.
At this rate Im going to lose everyone in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ family to this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Is this normal on Hard Difficulty ? Or is this just happening to me ?

[easytarget]

It definitely pays to recruit and groom your own agents to deal with the AI's when the time comes.

My experience with Shogun 2 is the agent spam is not noticeable at all compared to Rome 2, and for the most part by mid campaign I've got a full compliment of agents ranked up higher than what the AI is throwing at me and I deal with them easily.

Rome 2 on the other hand, it's absolutely comical in the GC (one of a multitude of reasons I can't be bothered to play it and stick to the DLC campaigns). I've had, and this is not an exageration, between 50-100 agents flipped to my side during the course of a single campaign. It gets so ridiculous I kill many more just because I don't want to be bothered with attending to what each of them are doing.

Net: Yes, some of CA's TW games do have agent spam issues. No, Shogun 2 is not one of them.

[Rocket Grunt]

I always recruit my ninjas/metsuke/monks from the provinces which provide bonuses to the agents because you can recruit 3 stars agents off the bat with the right provincial buildings. It make it easier for you to replace your lost agents without the need to grind experience for the lvl 0 recruits. There are also some research down on the chi tree which can increase your agent's chance of success but those can take some time to research. The agents are a lifesaver in legendary difficulty when you need to misdirect/bribe a stack that had slipped through the frontlines and the AI is helpess against them.

Btw, you can't lose the campaign in Shogun2 unlike Shogun1 when all your family members are dead because the clan always finds some long-lost relative to lead instead.

[traveller]

Nurture you agents. I've learned to take it very slow with them. I place them in one of my fortresses and they actually go up a level while there and then I send them on easy assignments until they have gone up a couple of levels. Killing enemy generals or other agents takes a very high ninja or a very lucky one.

[Teutonic Ritterin]

Originally posted by Killroy:

Playing campaign on hard.
Have about half the map, land and sea. I have many armies and a decent income a turn. My oponent is only one Clan, being that the second one only has one or two provinces, but is losing money.
But I keep losing Generals to ♥♥♥♥ing level 1 assasins

No matter how many Mesukes I ♥♥♥♥ing have, they are either killed by the same ♥♥♥♥ing assasin spam, or they get turned by one of the 10 monks my enemy has (I am not using a mod and yet the AI has a ♥♥♥♥ ton of ninja and monks).
I kill the assasins, get a high level nija, monk, or mesuke.
Then they themselves are killed by an enemy agent of the same type of level 0.

Seriously, I know the AI starts to cheat in this game after a certain difficulty. But this success rate is starting to ♥♥♥♥ me the ♥♥♥♥ off.
At this rate Im going to lose everyone in the ♥♥♥♥ing family to this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t.

Is this normal on Hard Difficulty ? Or is this just happening to me ?

or I could make a mod that will make Agent Spamming harder.
Well,I already have a personal mod for that,the mod only changes the agent cost by 10x.
This may sound much,but now when I'm recking everyone in the campaign,no small Factions can beat me by spamming agents,since they now cost 5000 Koku,instead of 500,which is quite Cheap.in Early game Agents will be super rare to see,and in mid game it would be rare to see one,and on the late game agent spam can be possible,but remember that the AI will loses all of his money because of each agent cost 5000 Koku,so it will make your high rank agent valuable.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by easytarget:

It definitely pays to recruit and groom your own agents to deal with the AI's when the time comes.

My experience with Shogun 2 is the agent spam is not noticeable at all compared to Rome 2, and for the most part by mid campaign I've got a full compliment of agents ranked up higher than what the AI is throwing at me and I deal with them easily.

Rome 2 on the other hand, it's absolutely comical in the GC (one of a multitude of reasons I can't be bothered to play it and stick to the DLC campaigns). I've had, and this is not an exageration, between 50-100 agents flipped to my side during the course of a single campaign. It gets so ridiculous I kill many more just because I don't want to be bothered with attending to what each of them are doing.

Net: Yes, some of CA's TW games do have agent spam issues. No, Shogun 2 is not one of them.

Agreed. Rome 2 actually has agent spam, but Shogun 2 really doesn't.

I have never found ai agents to be an issue even on Legendary, and even way back when I first started playing Shogun 2. I guess it's because I like to use agents myself, so they are buffed pretty early on.

Once you have several high rank ninja and metsuke of your own running around, AI ninja get killed super fast, which leaves the AI always playing catch up. AI monks and priests die even faster.

The AI can only have as many agents at it has buldings for them, so like 3 sake dens = 3 potential ninja agents simultaneously existing for that faction, to a maximum of 5 of any given agent type.

If your own agents are not good enough to consistently take out enemy agents, you can cheaply and easily sabotage sake dens and markets and such to keep them from recruiting, or at least from recruiting an agent near your provinces.

Sabotaging things like the 'ninja clan village' will keep the AI from recruiting higher level ninja.

[General Income Tax]

Agent spam really shouldn't be an issue for you on hard...are you using any mods? Don't forget that if you change how a unit works, the A.I takes advantage as well.

Anyway, when it comes to agents you should always have the upper hand against the A.I because hopefully you've been developing them from the start of the game. Save scum if you have to, but make sure you send your agents out on missions so they level up quickly. Sticking your metsukes in a city for years on end will raise them a couple of levels, but you can achieve the same skill gain in a couple of months with successful missions.

Train your ninja early, and train them in teams so that if one fails against an enemy agent/general you need dead now, you still have a backup plan.

[Wendersnaven]

I admit that agents can be really annoying, but even on the hardest mode they are managable in Shogun 2.

+1 on much of the above, especially the catch up. The key is to counter agents ... with agents. Which means you need to get enough of the right agents early so their experience can scale with the AI's.

I used to think agents in Shogun 2 could get out of hand, then I played Warhammer. I wrote my own mods and actually gave agents a few more skillpoints at certain thresholds, allowing them to specialize in a line/purpose. Assasin, protector, tax man, you name it. It's paper, rock, scissors on the agent level.Once you have technologies researched, you can replace dead agents with ones already experienced enough to surive and at least protect, if not fight back.

[rory.b.p]

As mentioned rome 2 agent spam is comical Shogun 2 is fine, you should be nurturing agents from early game, you don't need to spend money to level agents, they can level by sitting in armies or towns, monks can be vetted up for free demoralizing things and ninjas can be vetted up cheap sabotaging farms.
If there is agent spam causing reall problems (which honestly I've on experienced in painful amounts durin fot when I go republic).
Then kill the agent and sabotage the building.

But generally as mentioned it all comes down too not nurturing agents any time I see a complaint in the S2 forums about agent troubles it is players who have neglegted agents till it was already too late.

Also bear in mind your units may getting assasintated by a fully vetted ninja that you don't see while there are tier 1 ninjas around there also... you shouldn't rule this out.

[Eat3n]

Originally posted by Killroy:

But I keep losing Generals to ♥♥♥♥ing level 1 assasins

This ^ is the biggest beef i have with this game concerning agents. I notice a lot of the comments are "nurture and train your own agents", no ♥♥♥♥. That doesn't change the fact that an AI level 1 agent has a far higher, fantastic, success rate than they should normally. Agents are by far the best weapon in this game so i make sure to have an "army" of them, and i can have max level agents with 98% chance of success that get beaten by level 1 AI agents or the agent fails...with a 98% chance of success, that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[easytarget]

Your claim agent AI have a higher success rate just feels to me like observer bias.

Net: the player has an easy solution to combat this, so in my view if you don't do something about it, you'll suffer as a consequence, just as you should. This is no different than whining about the AI recruiting armies and invading your provinces, when the whole point of the game is to recruit your own armies and conquer/defend your territory.

[shiggies713]

I honestly cannot recall ever losing a general to an assasin, and I've played legendary only for over a year now. You must of had some bad luck.

Agents are like paper rock siccors too if you didn't know. Ninja > Monk > Metsuke > Ninja

though tbh I barely ever have the need to assasinate. I just rank up all metsuke to apprehend, even metsuke vs monk he will have at least 50% chance and its always free. Why bother paying an assasin like 1200 gold to do something a metsuke will do for free.

[Killroy]

Well, I was able to micro manage and get rind of many of the agents along with the regions that recruited them.

All in all.....

Lost about 4 generals (Several family members wounded)
One region was bribed (Recaped it, and looted it, cause ♥♥♥♥ em)
One of my armies was sabatoged for 5 straight years, another only One year
Ten of my agents were sent back to my capital (Wounded etc)
Lost about 20 agents in total.

There are no longer several ninja/monks following my armies now.

I found the source of the ninjas along with the monks, and captured them. The AI has been trying to build newer buildings in other areas, but I am caping to quickly. Besso, will fall before me.


I have never had this bad of luck with enemy agents, even in Rome ♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2.

[General Income Tax]

Originally posted by -EAT3N-:

Originally posted by Killroy:

But I keep losing Generals to ♥♥♥♥ing level 1 assasins

This ^ is the biggest beef i have with this game concerning agents. I notice a lot of the comments are "nurture and train your own agents", no ♥♥♥♥. That doesn't change the fact that an AI level 1 agent has a far higher, fantastic, success rate than they should normally. Agents are by far the best weapon in this game so i make sure to have an "army" of them, and i can have max level agents with 98% chance of success that get beaten by level 1 AI agents or the agent fails...with a 98% chance of success, that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Level 1 assassins wouldn't be a problem if you had half a dozen ninjas of your own :P
I find it odd that you'd say that having your own agents is obvious, but not make the connection that those very same agents are the ones you use to clean up AI agents.

Also you can stick metsuke in an army stack to protect the general, even a level 1 metsuke should make it near impossible for a level 1 ninja to get a kill...not that it should be necessary, again use your agents with higher skills to wipe out their agents before they even have a chance to do damage.

[General Income Tax]

Originally posted by Killroy:

Well, I was able to micro manage and get rind of many of the agents along with the regions that recruited them.

All in all.....

Lost about 4 generals (Several family members wounded)
One region was bribed (Recaped it, and looted it, cause ♥♥♥♥ em)
One of my armies was sabatoged for 5 straight years, another only One year
Ten of my agents were sent back to my capital (Wounded etc)
Lost about 20 agents in total.

There are no longer several ninja/monks following my armies now.

I found the source of the ninjas along with the monks, and captured them. The AI has been trying to build newer buildings in other areas, but I am caping to quickly. Besso, will fall before me.


I have never had this bad of luck with enemy agents, even in Rome ♥♥♥♥♥♥ 2.

Are you running Darthmod/Radious?

It sounds like you're dealing with an actual ridiculous level of agents which seems like it's a mod's doing because as has already been said, vanilla Shogun 2 doesn't have a problem with AI agent spam. The AI certainly uses agents, and some clans produce more agents than others, but even if you're only running a few agents of your own you can normally dominate fairly easily. Losing 20 agents is a pretty ridiculous streak. Unless you're just pumping out low level agents against their seasoned agents you shouldn't need that many, but there you go.

Glad you wiped out all those pesky agents OP.

[Wendersnaven]

SOOOOOoooooooooooo, about the whole level 1 outrage ...

If you put a ninja in the army with your general, he helps protect him so that level 1 enemy ninja doesn't successfully kill him. Better yet, stick a Metsuke in there too. If you get really desperate, trick the AI by raising monks near your general, and their Ninja (pl) will go after the easier targets instead. Monks are like crack for assasins.

Also ... low level generals are vulnerable until they get more experience and talents. That's how it is in the game files. Using this knowledge, develop a strategy, and win.