Ikko Ikki clan any fun?

[rolypoly]

Thinking of buying that dlc, but not sure if it's worth it? What difference does it have with the Uesugi clan, and is it much fun?

[easytarget]

I consider them one of the more interesting clans in Shogun 2. The ability to incite a rebellion that generates an army you get to control is unique to this clan.

[rolypoly]

Don't you find that to be a bit too powerful, though? In FOTS, inciting rebellion with your foreign veterans was pretty outright OP way of gaining territory without actually going to war...

[Zombie Lenin]

They are extremely fun, and start with artisans (super archers) plus a blacksmith (armored terminator infantry) right next door. Also they're the only ones with cheap sword infantry.
I'm not a fan of their unique bow/spear peasants since their stats are horrendous, but they get decent monks instead and said loanswords.

Just be warned, everyone will hate your guts and your weird religious ideas. Total War indeed :)

[Ëvïlnïck8 ゴゴゴ]

Just remember that diplomacy doesnt exist for the ikki, its basicly realm divide from turn 1.

[easytarget]

Originally posted by Hot Butter:

Don't you find that to be a bit too powerful, though? In FOTS, inciting rebellion with your foreign veterans was pretty outright OP way of gaining territory without actually going to war...

Well, I mean it's up to you whether to use it. You were asking why I find them interesting, and having a unique ability like that makes them different to utilize and therefore interesting. It's also interesting to play a clan nearly univerally dislike, that shapes the campaign differently than other clans, no one else are as reviled in Shogun 2, not even the Otomo. As a result you're dipomatically at war from the 1st turn.

[Björn]

Originally posted by Hot Butter:

Thinking of buying that dlc, but not sure if it's worth it? What difference does it have with the Uesugi clan, and is it much fun?

very usefull and fun in a campaign + you get monk cav to play with in multi player. a very strong unit

[rory.b.p]

Originally posted by Hot Butter:

Don't you find that to be a bit too powerful, though? In FOTS, inciting rebellion with your foreign veterans was pretty outright OP way of gaining territory without actually going to war...

No with the Ikko Ikki it is a double edged sword.
Basically your religion is insane it will spread like wildfire if you are building temples (which you should be because if you don't you will have unhappiness and rebellions to deal with).
If you do build temples even without sending monks out Ikko Ikki rebellions are going to start happening naturally and I've seen them happen 2-3 provinces away from the actual temple.
What this basically means is GL having any allies at all or even maintaining peace because everyone will be pissed with you.
Also these armies that pop up aren't under your control until they actually capture the province and once they do...... you are paying upkeep.
The cav can be very useful early game but its bloody expensive and armies can spawn with enough cav to cripple your income early game if you are not paying attention.

The Ikko Ikki are a Total War clan, should be played almost as if you are at war with everyone at the begining and early game expansion should be prioritized.
You have 3 things going for you here.... Loan sword ashigaru imo one of the most OP units in the early to mid game, Bulked up Yari (don't use these as your fighting force just keep them to deal with cav rushes and the inevitable takeda light cav spam) and starting with two provinces one with a fletcher the other a blacksmith and both with very Fertile soil.

The weaknesses are basically everyone hating you, having tricky expansion in either direction, towards Kyoto looks so nice but opening that hornets nest early game can cripple your eco.

For extra spice download the aggressive shogunate mod, this basically guarantees you will face full stack spam early game even without playing on harder difficulties.

Ikko Ikki are one of the most fun clans to play in the game, just don't go too heavy on the loan swords make sure you have counter cav units.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Hot Butter:

Don't you find that to be a bit too powerful, though? In FOTS, inciting rebellion with your foreign veterans was pretty outright OP way of gaining territory without actually going to war...

It's not as op as you'd think.

For one thing, Ikko Ikki don't have metsuke, so they can't bribe armies like other clans can do.

For another, the public disorder caused by the Jodu religion can become a problem if you don't make the time and koku investment necessary to prep provinces.

[easytarget]

And that last setence should not be underestimated as the general population of the provinces feel pretty much as happyw/ the ikko-ikki that all the clans do...

[Red Bat]

I completley ignore balance issues when discussing clans to play, because you really shouldn't go into a TW game and expect balanced gameplay for all playable factions.

Ikko Ikki are unique in a game where almost every clan is pretty cut and paste. That alone makes them worth it. But if you need further explaination:

-Ikko Ikki have a unique religion. This gives them much more use out of the religious conversion mechanic in this game, which otherwise is barely used. They get a harsh penalty to diplomacy though as they are pretty dogmatic. Their religious rebellion type work's differently than other religions too.

-Ikko Ikki ashigaru unit's are unique and come in large unit counts and lowered stats. They also are the only clan to get non-samurai katana units.

-Their samurai are replaced with ronin. This mean's most of their army's will be rather unique compared to other clans.

-Along with Uesugi, they are pretty much the warrior monk clan. Warrior monk unit's are fun to use.

Sadly, they don't get a unique intro cinematic like the other DLC clans.

I like the DLC clan's a bit more than the standard ones. But personally the Ikko Ikki are my least favorite of the three.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Ikko Ikki are definitely one of the most interesting playthroughs, imo.

The first time I beat the game was with Ikko Ikki, actually 😋

It was on N/N, and was pretty easy.

Ikko Ikki on Vh or Legendary can be downright pain inducing though, especially if you mess your early game up.

[shoobers]

The real question is...can you win the game utilizing a defensive strategy and doing slow but eventual religious conversion while your enemies crash upon your fortresses?

[Red Bat]

The Otomo are in kind of the same boat as the Ikko Ikki, but have some chance for diplomacy. They start at war with 2 clans who typically get full stacks of troops within 3 turns, and have to use matchlocks (which suck vs ashigaru) to even things out. Heck the early game for Otomo is pretty much waiting until your situation improves a bit while you focus on your navy and infrastructure to maintain some trading points and hoping the Mori doesn't declare war too soon.

However like the Ikko Ikki, the Otomo tend to have fairly unique armies in midgame. Only the Shimazu and the Otomo can really utilize matchlocks within the first 20 turns, and the Otomo can potentially be using Tercios. Sadly the Otomo actually pay more for imported matchlocks than a converted Shimazu does, and the Shimazu getting heavy gunner's means they seriously compete with Otomo for being "the gun clan" once lategame hits.

[rory.b.p]

Originally posted by Pidgeotto:

-Ikko Ikki ashigaru unit's are unique and come in large unit counts and lowered stats. They also are the only clan to get non-samurai katana units.

Not entirely true, ninja although small in number count as ''non samurai Katana units'' also the Mori get Wako Raiders which are non samurai Katana units with Kisho deployment and superior stats.
The strenght of the Loan sword isn't that they are a non samurai katana unit, it is that they are a non samurai Katana unit with dirt cheap upkeep (50) large numbers (200) and they can be fielded in early game when other clans seriously lack swords units and cavalry.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by shoobers:

The real question is...can you win the game utilizing a defensive strategy and doing slow but eventual religious conversion while your enemies crash upon your fortresses?

Yes.

You can take it slow grabbing a province here and there, then "unleash hell" and blitz multiple provinces per turn late game.

That was actually what I did when I beat the game with them.

The thing is, it's kind of a balancing act with converting provinces to Ikko religion.

- If your conversion is very little or none, you have big public order issues (grows to -6) when you conquer.

- On the other hand, the larger the conversion of an unowned province, the less success chance that the Ikko monk has to raise an ikki army.

- If conversion gets high in an unowned province, an Ikko rebellion may very well happen completely on its own. You have no control over these "auto rebellions," but the province's owning clan will treat them as if they are your forces, diplomatically speaking.

This can come at bad times if you're not careful, like the clan you needed to keep an alliance with is suddenly at war with you because auto-spawned Ikko rebels took one of the ally's provinces.