On the Subject of Complicated Wires (the venn diagram) simplified

[Not Quite Human]

Hey, folks!
If you're like me and you were having trouble deciphering the venn diagram for complicated wires, especially under pressure, and making a lot of mistakes that blew up your bomb handler, then this is for you.

I've taken all of the information from the four-way venn diagram, and its keys, and I've converted it all into a nice and concise table that is MUCH easier to work with and read. Keep in mind, I think you should only use this table if complicated wires and the venn diagram are consuming so much of your time to the point where you can't really progress. I feel like the complicated venn diagram and the difficulty in deciphering it is part of the experience, but there is a simpler alternative just in case.

Link to the table in PDF format: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GwyPh5u7N29W4Ak3NhWy2gvJykXEjQ2y/view?usp=sharing

at first, I was using a hand-written table for my personal use. But since I'm sharing this with the community, I went ahead and made a nicer version that somewhat matches the original manual. It can pretty much replace page 13 of your manual. I've tested it several times now and I'm positive it's accurate, but if you find any discrepancies, please let me know.

EDIT: Updated link since I guess Google updated their security, changing the privacy settings for this file and I've been getting request for access.

[CanadianWarship]

Originally posted by Dlaw:

Way to be a jerk, man. I was simply making the point that not everyone thinks in the way of the manual. In the real world, people overcome this by taking notes and looking for easy (and therefor quick) ways to understand the problem. I've always hated Venn diagrams, my mind just doesn't work that way. The chart made by the OP makes much more sense to me. In fact, that's exactly what I used to do when confronted by the infernal things in school.

Also, being that KSP and KTANE could both be called simulations, and are therefor in some degree based on similar real life experiences, comparisons between the game and what it's based on should indeed be expected AND encouraged. I'm not saying that this game would prepare you for defusing real bombs. I'm saying that this game simulates what it might be like.

Didn't mean to be a jerk, was just commenting on the fact that the complicated parts of the game are what make it fun IMO
Without the complications, it'd literally be two people talking to eachother about a ticking clock or even one person memorizing the whole manual, that would consist of no more than two and a half sentences

[Dlaw]

You couldn't have expected to come off any other way.

I disagree with your viewpoint entirely, because if you can memorize the manual, you probably aren't going to have any fun with this game anyway. I personally don't know anyone who can memorize what to do under any circumstance in every module. The game is plenty complicated enough.

I'd really like to see a video proving that someone can memorize every module and complete a super complicated bomb consistantly by themself with more than a minute to spare. Then, I want to see another person do the same thing. I really don't think there are many people who can do it, and the ones who can probably aren't interested anyway.

[aub]

I made a guide for dealing with Complicated Wires.

It doesn't contain cheat-sheets or anything like that, and is simply based off methods of communication and logic you can use to deal with them as easily as possible.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=535603174

[FMorschel]

Very thanks! I'm brazilian, I'm not too good in english so...
U help me so much! Thank you very much!

[aub]

Originally posted by fmist3ri0:

Very thanks! I'm brazilian, I'm not too good in english so...
U help me so much! Thank you very much!

I can't imagine how hard it must be to not speak English well! I mean, you face all kinds of challenges. Like not being able to understand charts, and accidentally responding to very old threads.

ಠ_ಠ

[Senfree]

Oddly enough. I find this harder to understand than the Venn Diagram. 0.o

[PombalSurvivor]

Thank you so much!!

[Waltuh]

Originally posted by Codename:Grey Fox:

So according to you guys, ideally you would have something that instantly gives you the solution as soon as you input the data. How fun!

Well, to each his own. I won't affect me since I'll never play with randoms, but to those that do and are trying to have fun playing the game this type of thinking pretty much wrecks the game.

Ok man if someone was working to defuse a bomb irl and they have something like complicated wires and they don't understand it, of course they're going to do something to make it easier. I mean instead of having a complex thing all you need to do is make a simple table. If you sat there for twenty minutes trying to do something on an actual timed bomb because you don't understand it, you and all the others around the bomb will die.

[Waltuh]

Originally posted by CanadianWarship:

Originally posted by Dlaw:

To add, do you really think that real bomb experts don't have their own notes, written in the way that makes the most sense to them?

Don't real bomb experts also have, uhhh, how could you say that, lives to protect?
My God, it's like I'm on KSP forums all over again, I thought I had been freed from that hell

Warship exactly... They have lives to save. They will do all they can to save those people. Including doing something easier and faster for them. You sound like a ♥♥♥♥. You're sitting on a discussion making the creator of this feel like he shouldn't have done it now. Honestly, if you don't want to use this, then don't use it. You shouldn't have found this discussion anyways, and you shouldn't ♥♥♥♥ on the creator for it.

[DarkArtika]

thank you very much. I didn't understand this puzzle until now :)

[Alcator]

Originally posted by Codename:Grey Fox:

So according to you guys, ideally you would

Reductio ad absurdum is a logical fallacy.

"Complicated wires" is perhaps the hardest module, not because it would be particularly difficult on its own, but because the manual for it is in a format (Venn diagram) that 90%+ of people are not accustomed to and would simply fail every time, without having a chance to even recognize where they are making a mistake.
The Venn diagram in the manual are intentionally confusing, with those silly dashed and dotted lines and weird letters in them. I understand the authors were planning for black-and-white printing, but any sane person would have those diagrams color coded according to the wire colors, and would use more sensible symbols and shapes and positions.

As such, converting the Venn diagram into something more practical makes sense, even if it reduces the difficulty.

[Codename: Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Alcator:

As such, converting the Venn diagram into something more practical makes sense, even if it reduces the difficulty.

Wow, it's been years, but I'll reply!

Sure, it makes sense. If your objective is to lower the difficulty of the game with the full knowledge that the developers did not intend it that way. Also know as: cheating.

Which as I said before, is fine as long as you're playing by yourself. But if you're playing online than it doesn't feel appropriate unless all consent to it.

[Mike]

I understand how ancient this thread is, and that the last reply is months ago.
I'll keep it brief and just note that, for any poor soul who hates Venn diagrams as much as I do, and finds the chart somewhat hard to take in as well.. I made this flowchart page based off of reddit user Shapanga's thread just for you.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GwyPh5u7N29W4Ak3NhWy2gvJykXEjQ2y