Theory on The Rotten's identity

[srsface]

I believe the Rotten is Alva the Wayfarer.

I had always thought it kind of strange we have two whole sets of gear (Alva's Set, Black Witch Set) that sets up a love triangle. For the purposes of item descriptions in Dark Souls 2, it's fairly in depth especially for two random gear sets.

From Fextralife, Alva Set:
"Helmet/Armor/Gauntlets/Leggings worn by Alva the Wayfarer

Light but offers very high defense.
Alva crossed many a land in search of a cure for Saint Serreta's sickness, but failed and relinquished his knighthood.

Scholar of the First Sin changed to:
Light but offer very high defense.
Alva crossed many a land in search of a cure for Saint Serreta's sickness, but failed and relinquished his knighthood.
Alva was once wracked with guilt and remorse, but rediscovered his purpose in life with the aid of the witch who once plotted against him."

Black Witch Set:
"<Gear> worn by Zullie the witch,seducer of Alva of Wayfarer. Boasts excellent magic defense.
When Zullie the witch learned of Alva's dedication to Saint Serrata she used all manner of tricks and deceit to ruin him, but in the end she would spend her life with him, supporting his endeavors."
Scholar of the First Sin added:
"The witch, as unloving as she was unloved, finally found illumination through her blighted existence."

Now, here's where the theory part comes in.

We know unwanted things got dropped into the well in Majula, eventually leading them to the Gutter. Various item descriptions lead us to this conclusion, mostly the Rotten's soul:
"Soul of the Rotten, who writhes deep within the Gutter.
The Rotten embraces all, in the sanctuary for all things unwanted or tossed away.
Use the special soul of the Rotten to acquire numerous souls, or to create something of great worth."

That lead me to think about the Gutter Denizen invading spirit that crops up once you light all the sconces in the zone. It's dressed entirely in the Black Witch set, specifically with the Veil hat as opposed to the two other Black Witch hat items. This is probably Zullie or at least an aspect of her, supporting Alva's (the Rotten's) endeavours. She was somewhat "tossed away" by Alva, if you think about it, which partially explains why she's located here. He rejected her advances because of his deep, undying devotion to Saint Serrata, and she stuck around because she realized the strength he had. The Veil rather than the Hat or the Mask represents her wishing to be his bride, or perhaps is hiding her face after the "illumination" she discovered "through her blighted existence."

That would mean the statues, and why the Rotten crafts them, are effigies to Saint Serrata. They kind of look saintly with that hood they've got on, and the Rotten is crying through the fog gate because even a single one of them broke. The reasons the statues spit poison is, I believe, supposed to represent the sickness that eventually ended Serrata. He's wracked with guilt still about not being able to save her. The reason he's so far down in the world is because his quest to find a cure "crossed many lands." Residing in the Black Gutter and embracing all unwanted things would be how he "rediscovered purpose in life," Zullie's spirit being down there as "aid of the witch who once plotted against him."

This is totally head canon for me, so I hope you guys enjoy my theory.

[bloom]

but rotten is too big to fit into armor like that

busted

[srsface]

How about this:
Black magic from Zullie. Started attaching bodies of the dead to him. He literally embraced those tossed away by merging with them.

This possibly explains why an Ancient Graverobber (one of the ganksquad boss in Shulva) would be wearing his set. It doesn't fit the horrid monstrosity that is the remnants of Alva, and may have been buried somewhere to be looted later.

Another thought I just had, his explorations across many lands partially explains why his arm drops a Pharros Lockstone when you chop it off. He'd have encountered many of Pharros' traps just like the player does, during his adventures.

[Jäger]

Old dead one soul.

Body made of numerous corpses.

One-handed sword.

Some magic.

'nuff said.

[srsface]

It's not Gravelord Nito reincarnate, but that actually is another thing that could explain the monstrous transformation rather than my theory about Zullie's black magic help.

"This once magnificent soul continues to exert influence over the land, even after the eons have reduced it to these remnants."

Says that for all of the old souls from NG+ bosses. Common theme with Dark Souls is that Souls themselves have great power, which extrapolated means no souls have quite as much power as those of the old great ones.

The Lost Sinner is not the Witch of Izalith, nor is the ancient dragon trapped in Freja's room Seath the Scaleless, and the Iron King is not Gwyn or the 4 Kings. The point of the old great souls from DS1 being on NG+ bosses is to create parallels. Obtaining those souls is what drove these bosses to commit the acts they do. The Lost Sinner is a sinner for also attempting to create a new First Flame. Obtaining the Paledrake Soul is probably why the Duke betrayed the people of Brightstone Cove and was unfeeling as they were consumed by spiders. The Iron King's greed which sunk his entire kingdom resembles that very much of the 4 Kings.

[Kuroitsune]

Sounds interesting, but why does he drop a pharros lockstone when you cut his arm off? Why are the poision status in Shulva as well? Is he from Shulva to begin with? Am I asking too many questions?

At face value it seems logical, but the Pharros Lockstone that is dropped when his arm is cut off gives people the idea he is Pharros himself. Personally I never liked that train of thought, it seemed to easy. I'm willing to believe the collecter of the unwanted and thrown out junk just happens to have a Lockstone in his arm. And what connection would Pharros have to the statues anyway? Nothing I've seen indicates a connection between him and anyone else.

Edit: Your theory sounds better than mine about the lockstone. Damn my slowness to type.

The poison statues are in Shulva, not just the Gutter, but they are not just poison, they are also have pertification properties. Does it indicate that her sickness got worse - that she was interred in the Cave of the Dead? The two may not have come from Shulva, but it may have been where she finally meet her end, trying to find the cure, before Shulva meet it's own fate. In order to get to Shulva, you must defeat the Rotten, a quasi gaurdian to where she was buried.

[Hello darkness]

Originally posted by srsface:

It's not Gravelord Nito reincarnate, but that actually is another thing that could explain the monstrous transformation rather than my theory about Zullie's black magic help.

"This once magnificent soul continues to exert influence over the land, even after the eons have reduced it to these remnants."

Says that for all of the old souls from NG+ bosses. Common theme with Dark Souls is that Souls themselves have great power, which extrapolated means no souls have quite as much power as those of the old great ones.

The Lost Sinner is not the Witch of Izalith, nor is the ancient dragon trapped in Freja's room Seath the Scaleless, and the Iron King is not Gwyn or the 4 Kings. The point of the old great souls from DS1 being on NG+ bosses is to create parallels. Obtaining those souls is what drove these bosses to commit the acts they do. The Lost Sinner is a sinner for also attempting to create a new First Flame. Obtaining the Paledrake Soul is probably why the Duke betrayed the people of Brightstone Cove and was unfeeling as they were consumed by spiders. The Iron King's greed which sunk his entire kingdom resembles that very much of the 4 Kings.

I was here, quietly reading the forumsand BANG, this has just blown my mind into pieces, making a gross mess in m room, with a lot of goo from the brain all over the place :S

[jordauser]

I like you theory but I've always believed it is the defeated king of shulva.The corpses of rotten are citizens of shulva who died when sir Yorgh awake Sinh, and the statues are representations of the citizens. This also explain all the poison in the black glucht.
Moreover in the optional area of the first DLC, cave of dead, there are a lot of this statutes so it's possible that the statues where a type of funeral rite in Shulva. Have to say that the zone where we found more statues is the zone where we fight the guy with alva set.
Shulva and the gutter have and strong relation, the description of puzzle sword found in the sanctuary of shulva says:

"A sword with a segmented blade.When swung its segments separate and the sword strike in a whipping slash.
Crafted with rare magnetic stone of remarkable strength only found within caves of the gutter."

How he have the old one soul, apart of being a body made of corpses, could be the sinh poison.

"Ring of Sir Yorgh, who sought the blood of a dragon and invaded Shulva.
Can deflect spells.
When Sir Yorgh faced Sinh, the slumbering dragon, he drew blood with a flash of his steel, but Sinh responded by spewing forth the poison that had long brewed within him, blanketing the city in a miasmic cloud."

"Soul of Sinh the Dragon, who sleeps in the lowermost depths of this land.
The King erected a magnificient city, and the dragon slept soundly. Until Sir Yorgh disturbed it with a single great strike, and the dragon could bear its store of poison no longer. The rain of death toppled the city, but restored the dragon's purity.
The wondrous soul of this dragon can be used to acquire numerous souls, or to create something of great worth."

The second description implies that Sinh it's also poisoned because when he finally drop them he restored his purity. In the first descrition it is used the word miasmic the same word used to describe Nito's powers in DSI, so I think that Sinh fight against the lords before DS1 and was poisoned by Nito, the Old dead one soul, making Sinh asleep and becomeing the slumbering dragon. This show the strong relation that have the rotten, shulva and old dead one soul.

Finally, it has some kind of logic that the two ways to the DLC found in primal bonfires have their respective kings, the rotten fallen king of shulva and the old iron king the fallen king of old iron kigdom.

Anyway I also like and find very interesing your theory about rotten being alva.

Sorry for the wall of text

[srsface]

I like that, Jord, though I am not quite sure I buy the Shulva King = The Rotten thing, if only because The Rotten was a major thing before that DLC ever came out. Not saying it couldn't have been a planned out thing as we encounter the Fume Knight's shield in the base game long before we ever met him (The Rebel's Greatshield for what it's worth.)

The DLCs further explain the state of Drangleic and the outlying areas you travelled to in the base game. Red Dragon's idea and yours kind of go together, that there is clearly a link to Shulva.

Possibilities for that link with my idea: Zullie and Alva travelled there together thinking there was some cure from Sinh, who was able to purify himself by spewing out the miasma and destroying that kingdom? It could be where he gave up, or perhaps that's when it was too late for Saint Serrata. As Red Dragon said, the petrifying stone statues you encounter could represent her having progressed from sick to hollow. It's a theory that at least attempts to explain why there is a different type of statue you encounter.

Would also explain why there's a graverobber wearing his armor, within that zone.

[Quiron]

Just a note to op: The Gutter Denizen is a male.

If a male equip the black witch set, the legs become pants:
http://i.imgur.com/4hw1zVn.png

[Kuroitsune]

Well now, that shot it all to hell.

Remember kids, always get a peek before you dive in.

[srsface]

Originally posted by Quiron:

Just a note to op: The Gutter Denizen is a male.

So are several otherwise female-seeming NPC invaders, but that's a good catch.

[Hello darkness]

Homsexuality? transgender? Could it hapen in the ds universe... ejem... gwendolin?

Or... if Alva was a woman and the witch a man? Is there a term to refer to a male witch in the ds universe? I can't recall reading the word "wizard", maybe mage.... but a mage and a witch are part of the same cathegory? Is there male and female mages?

I always though that the alva set looked kinda femenine, and the one he/she wanted to save was a man...

[76561198006416723]

ds2 lore is a mess

[srsface]

More likely, it was laziness on the part of the devs because almost every invader spirit in the entire game defaults to male. Only ones that are clearly female are Fencer Sharon, Melinda the Butcher and the Nameless Usurper. First two there are wearing super light clothing so you see the bras, last one is an invader who's actually someone who eventually resides in Majula so making sure they got that right was important.

I believe in the game files, Quicksword Rachel in Brume Tower is a male model despite having a woman's name. Can't tell with all that armor on, so there's functionally no difference.

However, if we take the game for what it gives us, then perhaps it IS something important and not just an oversight. What that could mean, I don't know.

I feel like someone would have to hack the game files to give us a look at the non-invader Gutter Denizen for us to know for sure.

[Spider-Mom]

Originally posted by srsface:

It's not Gravelord Nito reincarnate, but that actually is another thing that could explain the monstrous transformation rather than my theory about Zullie's black magic help.

"This once magnificent soul continues to exert influence over the land, even after the eons have reduced it to these remnants."

Says that for all of the old souls from NG+ bosses. Common theme with Dark Souls is that Souls themselves have great power, which extrapolated means no souls have quite as much power as those of the old great ones.

The Lost Sinner is not the Witch of Izalith, nor is the ancient dragon trapped in Freja's room Seath the Scaleless, and the Iron King is not Gwyn or the 4 Kings. The point of the old great souls from DS1 being on NG+ bosses is to create parallels. Obtaining those souls is what drove these bosses to commit the acts they do. The Lost Sinner is a sinner for also attempting to create a new First Flame. Obtaining the Paledrake Soul is probably why the Duke betrayed the people of Brightstone Cove and was unfeeling as they were consumed by spiders. The Iron King's greed which sunk his entire kingdom resembles that very much of the 4 Kings.

EDIT: I typed something else out without reading this entire response. Sorry, but you are wrong.

Yes, they are the old characters from DS1. It says so point blank in the in multiple locations game that they ARE the reformed souls of the old ones. It doesnt say anything spicifically mentioning Nito but I think we are strongly meant to inffer as much. Nashandra being one of the most obvious examples. They are not just oncunnected parallels dude. Go actually play the game.
Some of the characters of this game are great souls in their own right who didnt come from the old kingdom that Drangleic is now built on. Vendric being a great example of that. If you really read what he did he is just as powerful all on his own or even more so than most other people from the lore of DS.