DARK SOULS™ II: Scholar of the First Sin

DARK SOULS™ II: Scholar of the First Sin

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Turt Jan 16, 2020 @ 1:47pm
Dual Smelter Sword Build?
I want to make some dank explosions. Nothing more. Nothing less.

This is my build idea. Tell me what you guys think or recommend. Never done this sorta thing
https://www.mugenmonkey.com/darksouls2/81464

:D
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
boolean Jan 16, 2020 @ 5:56pm 
a "good" sl150 build for powerstancing smelter swords doesn't really exist tbh. You need around sl200 to not be directly sacrificing anything for the gimmick of powerstancing dual smelter swords. No reason to limit yourself to specifically 150 in this game (invasions and summoning do NOT depend upon soul level, they depend on soul memory, look it up if you're unfamiliar with how it works. DS2 isn't like other DS games in this manner) unless you want to be within the arena meta to not get klopped by salty clowns. If this is a pve build, I'd really suggest going up to at least sl200 to make the build actually decent.

Regardless of your level, if you want to PVP with this, make sure to buff yourself with the green blossom consumable to give yourself more passable stamina regen, you'll need it and won't have any good alternative body buffs available anyhow.

As for what you posted...

no equip load for armor is tough because zero poise. Consider swapping one or both of your clutch rings. A ring of giants +2 for some poise, a chloranthy +2, maybe even a gowers could go a long way to making life easier for this build in pvp. Ring of blades isn't bad either, but usually is better on faster low damage weapons. Still not a bad choice though. One ring of blades +2 would probably provide a greater damage boost than both clutch rings put together, but idk for sure without testing.

84 agility because of low atn and adp is very, very bad. You will die to everything in pve and pvp because of your terrible 5 iframe rolls. You need at least 96 for rolls to feel usable in pvp, 99 minimum for viability. 105 is ideal and great to have but not always possible, certainly not on this build.

Too much vit, you don't need less than 50% equip load. Not as much as you need 50 vig and over 96 adp anyways. Drop that until you're in the neighborhood of 60% equip with your third dragon ring and royal soldiers +2. You could even go lower if you're willing to swap a clutch for a chloranthy to prevent your stam regen from becoming atrociously bad as you approach 70% equip load.

Way too many points in dex, it only takes 15 dex to powerstance two smelter swords. Dex to 15.

Suboptimal starting class, both swords scale slightly with int so having 1 int sucks, but if you don't want to put any points into atn for a spell slot or two then bandit's fine because only 11 points in your unused magic stats.

If you want to be able to still fight against the sl150 meta in arenas you can go up to sl 155 for the extra few points, and trust me, you'll probably want those 5 extra levels tbh. Don't expect this build to be good in pvp though lol

IMO, a better sl155 build would be:

starting class bandit

vgr 40 or more depending on vitality choice

end 28 (or lower depending on a useful swing threshold for these weapons, maybe even a touch higher if you want to steal points from vigor for one extra swing)

vit either 21 for non-fat rolls with third dragon, royal soldier +2, gower's, ring of giants +2 and an iron king crown for the spell regeneration, or 15 for 60% equip load with clutch rings.

atn 13 to throw on a couple pyros. Pyro flames weigh nothing so there's little other cost to the build except a few levels of atn that still contribute some to AGL and slightly reduce your minimum ADP investment. one or two warmth pyromancies for heals so you can outcheese cancer arena players, maybe one warmth and one fire tempest/chaos storm/great combustion to catch wakeups after you get a backstab, a warmth and a toxic mist to mess with people, whatever you feel like. Could leave this at 2 if you like I suppose, but if you do, push all extra points into vigor and adp to keep 99 agl and maximize health. Be aware that not having warmth will make you VERY vulnerable to getting cheesed by enemy healers in the arena though lol 2 attunement slots plus spell regeneration from the iron king crown will give you the staying power you need to have a chance at outstalling enemy healers in the arena.

Str 60 for powerstance

dex 15 for powerstance

adp 22 or 25 depending on attunement choice to keep 99 agl so your rolls aren't such garbage

int 1 oof

fth 8 yay fire bns

head armor crown of the iron king

rings:
Ring of giants +2 for poise. Hyper armor + 30 poise is actually pretty decent for the most part, but many 2 handed weapons will still make you flinch every time.
Gower's ring of protection (lets you turn your back on people to tank hits better and provides backstab immunity. Helps this build ignore its low HP and defense as well as the backstab vulnerability of its slow weapons)
third dragon ring
royal soldier's +2


That build isn't great but it isn't unusable either. Ring of giants will let you poise through and tank the occasional one handed r1 from various types of weapons like straight swords and thrusting swords. Zero poise on a build with hyper armor endowed weapons would be such a waste, and you really don't have the equip load capacity at sl155 to get your poise from armor lol.

I could make a SL200 build for powerstancing smelter swords that would seem much more viable though tbh.

Here's the text export of the sl155 build from soulsplanner if you want to check it out for yourself:

SL 155 Bandit Vigor: 40 Endurance: 28 Vitality: 21 Attunement: 13 Strength: 60 Dexterity: 15 Adaptability: 22 Intelligence: 1 Faith: 8 LH1: Smelter Sword LH2: Bare Fists LH3: Bare Fists RH1: Bare Fists RH2: Aged Smelter Sword RH3: Bare Fists Ring 1: Ring of Giants Ring 2: Third Dragon Ring Ring 3: Gower's Ring of Protection Ring 4: Royal Soldier's Ring

If I were doing this build I'd go for sl200 with something more like this:

SL 200 Bandit Vigor: 50 Endurance: 40 Vitality: 40 Attunement: 20 Strength: 60 Dexterity: 15 Adaptability: 19 Intelligence: 1 Faith: 8 LH1: Smelter Sword LH2: Bare Fists LH3: Bare Fists RH1: Bare Fists RH2: Aged Smelter Sword RH3: Bare Fists Ring 1: Chloranthy Ring Ring 2: Third Dragon Ring Ring 3: Gower's Ring of Protection Ring 4: Royal Soldier's Ring

for the four spells I'd personally go great combustion/fire tempest, toxic mist, warmth, and one of another warmth, iron flesh to mess with people who don't know what it is, maybe even take off one offensive pyromancy to throw on lingering flame to hide inside my warmths and deny corners so I can heal lol. Or you could just do the attunement glitch and make one of them forbidden sun with 11 uses, your choice.

As for armor, an iron king crown, Old Knight armor, and Gyrm warrior boots keeps you under 66% equip load, and gives spell regen and great poise/weight, but this build really wishes it had 90 poise. Consider keeping the RoG+2 on this sl200 build over either the chloranthy or the gowers, and again, be sure to buff with the green blossom herb thingy that ornifex sells to buff your stamina regen.
Last edited by boolean; Jan 16, 2020 @ 6:01pm
Turt Jan 16, 2020 @ 6:21pm 
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I was not expecting help to such a degree and I gratefully point up in your direction. I mainly stick to the PvP side of the Ds2, but Sl200 doesn't sound like a bad idea. I hear its still popular in some areas. I guess I kinda want to explain some of my original choices so you can have an idea of what I was going for.

The no armor part was kinda my bad. I didn't know what armor to wear so I was just gonna yolo it until I found some lol. Naked runs are fun. But not so much in the PvP side of the world lmao

The main reason I poured a bunch of points in dex was cause I saw both smelter swords scale in dex as well as strength. Making them more quality based weapons. So I figured the extra damage wouldn't hurt.

As for adaptability, I figured I wouldn't need as I would just poise through most attacks if I needed too (switch one smelter sword for some high poise armor)

With a SL200 build it could definitely work better and I'll go off most of your advice since you clearly know more than me lol.

Thanks a lot for the advice and I can't wait to start smashing away :)
76561199004808348 Jan 16, 2020 @ 8:12pm 
Originally posted by pasta roni:
a "good" sl150 build for powerstancing smelter swords doesn't really exist tbh. You need around sl200 to not be directly sacrificing anything for the gimmick of powerstancing dual smelter swords. No reason to limit yourself to specifically 150 in this game (invasions and summoning do NOT depend upon soul level, they depend on soul memory, look it up if you're unfamiliar with how it works. DS2 isn't like other DS games in this manner) unless you want to be within the arena meta to not get klopped by salty clowns. If this is a pve build, I'd really suggest going up to at least sl200 to make the build actually decent.

Regardless of your level, if you want to PVP with this, make sure to buff yourself with the green blossom consumable to give yourself more passable stamina regen, you'll need it and won't have any good alternative body buffs available anyhow.

As for what you posted...

no equip load for armor is tough because zero poise. Consider swapping one or both of your clutch rings. A ring of giants +2 for some poise, a chloranthy +2, maybe even a gowers could go a long way to making life easier for this build in pvp. Ring of blades isn't bad either, but usually is better on faster low damage weapons. Still not a bad choice though. One ring of blades +2 would probably provide a greater damage boost than both clutch rings put together, but idk for sure without testing.

84 agility because of low atn and adp is very, very bad. You will die to everything in pve and pvp because of your terrible 5 iframe rolls. You need at least 96 for rolls to feel usable in pvp, 99 minimum for viability. 105 is ideal and great to have but not always possible, certainly not on this build.

Too much vit, you don't need less than 50% equip load. Not as much as you need 50 vig and over 96 adp anyways. Drop that until you're in the neighborhood of 60% equip with your third dragon ring and royal soldiers +2. You could even go lower if you're willing to swap a clutch for a chloranthy to prevent your stam regen from becoming atrociously bad as you approach 70% equip load.

Way too many points in dex, it only takes 15 dex to powerstance two smelter swords. Dex to 15.

Suboptimal starting class, both swords scale slightly with int so having 1 int sucks, but if you don't want to put any points into atn for a spell slot or two then bandit's fine because only 11 points in your unused magic stats.

If you want to be able to still fight against the sl150 meta in arenas you can go up to sl 155 for the extra few points, and trust me, you'll probably want those 5 extra levels tbh. Don't expect this build to be good in pvp though lol

IMO, a better sl155 build would be:

starting class bandit

vgr 40 or more depending on vitality choice

end 28 (or lower depending on a useful swing threshold for these weapons, maybe even a touch higher if you want to steal points from vigor for one extra swing)

vit either 21 for non-fat rolls with third dragon, royal soldier +2, gower's, ring of giants +2 and an iron king crown for the spell regeneration, or 15 for 60% equip load with clutch rings.

atn 13 to throw on a couple pyros. Pyro flames weigh nothing so there's little other cost to the build except a few levels of atn that still contribute some to AGL and slightly reduce your minimum ADP investment. one or two warmth pyromancies for heals so you can outcheese cancer arena players, maybe one warmth and one fire tempest/chaos storm/great combustion to catch wakeups after you get a backstab, a warmth and a toxic mist to mess with people, whatever you feel like. Could leave this at 2 if you like I suppose, but if you do, push all extra points into vigor and adp to keep 99 agl and maximize health. Be aware that not having warmth will make you VERY vulnerable to getting cheesed by enemy healers in the arena though lol 2 attunement slots plus spell regeneration from the iron king crown will give you the staying power you need to have a chance at outstalling enemy healers in the arena.

Str 60 for powerstance

dex 15 for powerstance

adp 22 or 25 depending on attunement choice to keep 99 agl so your rolls aren't such garbage

int 1 oof

fth 8 yay fire bns

head armor crown of the iron king

rings:
Ring of giants +2 for poise. Hyper armor + 30 poise is actually pretty decent for the most part, but many 2 handed weapons will still make you flinch every time.
Gower's ring of protection (lets you turn your back on people to tank hits better and provides backstab immunity. Helps this build ignore its low HP and defense as well as the backstab vulnerability of its slow weapons)
third dragon ring
royal soldier's +2


That build isn't great but it isn't unusable either. Ring of giants will let you poise through and tank the occasional one handed r1 from various types of weapons like straight swords and thrusting swords. Zero poise on a build with hyper armor endowed weapons would be such a waste, and you really don't have the equip load capacity at sl155 to get your poise from armor lol.

I could make a SL200 build for powerstancing smelter swords that would seem much more viable though tbh.

Here's the text export of the sl155 build from soulsplanner if you want to check it out for yourself:

SL 155 Bandit Vigor: 40 Endurance: 28 Vitality: 21 Attunement: 13 Strength: 60 Dexterity: 15 Adaptability: 22 Intelligence: 1 Faith: 8 LH1: Smelter Sword LH2: Bare Fists LH3: Bare Fists RH1: Bare Fists RH2: Aged Smelter Sword RH3: Bare Fists Ring 1: Ring of Giants Ring 2: Third Dragon Ring Ring 3: Gower's Ring of Protection Ring 4: Royal Soldier's Ring

If I were doing this build I'd go for sl200 with something more like this:

SL 200 Bandit Vigor: 50 Endurance: 40 Vitality: 40 Attunement: 20 Strength: 60 Dexterity: 15 Adaptability: 19 Intelligence: 1 Faith: 8 LH1: Smelter Sword LH2: Bare Fists LH3: Bare Fists RH1: Bare Fists RH2: Aged Smelter Sword RH3: Bare Fists Ring 1: Chloranthy Ring Ring 2: Third Dragon Ring Ring 3: Gower's Ring of Protection Ring 4: Royal Soldier's Ring

for the four spells I'd personally go great combustion/fire tempest, toxic mist, warmth, and one of another warmth, iron flesh to mess with people who don't know what it is, maybe even take off one offensive pyromancy to throw on lingering flame to hide inside my warmths and deny corners so I can heal lol. Or you could just do the attunement glitch and make one of them forbidden sun with 11 uses, your choice.

As for armor, an iron king crown, Old Knight armor, and Gyrm warrior boots keeps you under 66% equip load, and gives spell regen and great poise/weight, but this build really wishes it had 90 poise. Consider keeping the RoG+2 on this sl200 build over either the chloranthy or the gowers, and again, be sure to buff with the green blossom herb thingy that ornifex sells to buff your stamina regen.
arena meta does not exist. arena does completely random matchmaking that does not care about your level.
Turt Jan 16, 2020 @ 9:09pm 
From what I've heard, arena is based off SM. I don't bother with arena much tbh. I stick to Iron Bridge
boolean Jan 16, 2020 @ 10:48pm 
Originally posted by Turt:
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I was not expecting help to such a degree and I gratefully point up in your direction. I mainly stick to the PvP side of the Ds2, but Sl200 doesn't sound like a bad idea. I hear its still popular in some areas. I guess I kinda want to explain some of my original choices so you can have an idea of what I was going for.

The no armor part was kinda my bad. I didn't know what armor to wear so I was just gonna yolo it until I found some lol. Naked runs are fun. But not so much in the PvP side of the world lmao

The main reason I poured a bunch of points in dex was cause I saw both smelter swords scale in dex as well as strength. Making them more quality based weapons. So I figured the extra damage wouldn't hurt.

As for adaptability, I figured I wouldn't need as I would just poise through most attacks if I needed too (switch one smelter sword for some high poise armor)

With a SL200 build it could definitely work better and I'll go off most of your advice since you clearly know more than me lol.

Thanks a lot for the advice and I can't wait to start smashing away :)

Something to keep in mind if PVP is your main focus: the only place that does Soul Level matchmaking in this game is the arena, so the main consideration for invasions and red summon signs is soul memory. Unless you want to do lots of brotherhood of blood arena fights, keeping to an exact level or level range isn't super mission critical. Even the arena will eventually match you against people of any level if it can't find you an opponent within + or - 5 levels, though this will obviously match you with more sl400+ cancer builds lol so staying within 5 levels of whoever still plays the 150 meta might reduce the cancer matches a bit. If you're just going to do invasions, you'll just have to make sure you don't grind too many souls out and get to a super high, inactive soul memory I suppose.

No armor is okay, especially compared to being overencumbered lol most armor will be empty on sl155 powerstance smelter swords build by virtue of avoiding fat rolls. Not a mistake, no need to apologize! Your intention is to make a nacho cheese cool ranch dorito sword combo build, so armor must be sacrificed to appease the meme gods and ensure the smashing of your foes

Dex would be an okay investment at higher soul levels maybe if the scaling letter isn't lying, but is probably grossly unnecessary until your other stats are looking good. Scaling letters in DS2 are all over the place. Some C scaling is trash, other C scaling is better than most S scaling. Super high variance. Not sure how much the smelters actually gain from their dex scaling, but to be honest, you won't need the extra damage lol they'll already do stupid damage by virtue of being smelter swords with over 50 strength. I think the extra damage from the dex scaling will be peeing in the ocean of damage you already put out tbh. You'll probably be much more threatening with some better survivability to back that damage up

You'll still need ADP even if you have lots of health and poise, some enemies will have goofy ♥♥♥♥ like spears that can poke you from out of your range making it much harder to force trades. Plus, mages will be VERY tilting with bad ADP. Crystal Soul Spear is much harder to roll through with minimum adp lol

Soul vessels are a thing, so you can experiment on your own to find a fine tuning you like best. Hope the build works out for you!
Turt Jan 16, 2020 @ 11:27pm 
Yeah, I've been messing around in SoulsPlanner and surprisingly, dex investment is only putting an extra 20-30 damage into my ocean of destruction lmao. I can EASILY sacrifice 20-30 points of damage in exchange for being able to roll through dummy soul spears and affinities.

Also would you happen to have any PvP advice for dual ultra greatswords or ultra greatswords in general? You seem like a real genuine expert here so I'm looking anymore help and you my friend have provided more than enough :)
TrueArchery Jan 19, 2020 @ 10:27am 
The elemental scaling of those weapons is ♥♥♥♥ and in relation to their attack power it's even worse, the bandit is easily the most efficient starting class. Scaling is pretty bad on the majority of weapons anyway, it's the last stat to pay attention to tbh.

You can get a lot of poise with an infamous armor set - minotaur helm, black witch robe, havel's gaunlets and boots. It's a bit over 90 which is a relevant breakpoint for a bunch of running attacks. Only 30 poise, even factoring in hyperarmor, is pretty bad. At least you aren't completely destroyed by ice rapier running attacks. Should probably aim at 45 poise in total at least.

Drop spells, this build already has huge stat requirements. Spells make it worse.

You don't need that much agility. You can go 92 which is efficient in terms of levels spent and the relative increase and obviously a huge improvement over the base value which indeed sucks. If you can't dodge reliably with this you need to get better at dodging.

That said I'd build it like this at 150:
47 Vgr
20 End
39 Vit
2 Atn base
60 Str
15 Dex
11 Adp
1 Int base
8 Fth base
with the already mentioned armor pieces, the 3rd dragon ring, royal soldiers ring +2, life ring +3 and simpletons ring. After getting hit you can switch the life ring for a tearstone ring or the ring of blades +2.
You can research more optimal stamina breakpoints and adjust Vgr and End accordingly.

Basically the idea of successfully playing ultras is annoying the opponent by dodging so that they overcommit and you can trade hits (r1 into l1 is a true combo). You should fish for backstabs. Busting out a jumping attack every now and then is smart (and it's a good followup to a combo, if they roll away they often get hit by this).
You'll lose against most people with a better build that are at least half-decent at PvP.
Evil The Cat Jan 19, 2020 @ 10:34am 
If I was this new at Dark Souls, I'd hide my playtime, too.
boolean Jan 19, 2020 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by TrueArchery:
The elemental scaling of those weapons is ♥♥♥♥ and in relation to their attack power it's even worse, the bandit is easily the most efficient starting class. Scaling is pretty bad on the majority of weapons anyway, it's the last stat to pay attention to tbh.

You can get a lot of poise with an infamous armor set - minotaur helm, black witch robe, havel's gaunlets and boots. It's a bit over 90 which is a relevant breakpoint for a bunch of running attacks. Only 30 poise, even factoring in hyperarmor, is pretty bad. At least you aren't completely destroyed by ice rapier running attacks. Should probably aim at 45 poise in total at least.

Drop spells, this build already has huge stat requirements. Spells make it worse.

You don't need that much agility. You can go 92 which is efficient in terms of levels spent and the relative increase and obviously a huge improvement over the base value which indeed sucks. If you can't dodge reliably with this you need to get better at dodging.

That said I'd build it like this at 150:
47 Vgr
20 End
39 Vit
2 Atn base
60 Str
15 Dex
11 Adp
1 Int base
8 Fth base
with the already mentioned armor pieces, the 3rd dragon ring, royal soldiers ring +2, life ring +3 and simpletons ring. After getting hit you can switch the life ring for a tearstone ring or the ring of blades +2.
You can research more optimal stamina breakpoints and adjust Vgr and End accordingly.

Basically the idea of successfully playing ultras is annoying the opponent by dodging so that they overcommit and you can trade hits (r1 into l1 is a true combo). You should fish for backstabs. Busting out a jumping attack every now and then is smart (and it's a good followup to a combo, if they roll away they often get hit by this).
You'll lose against most people with a better build that are at least half-decent at PvP.

Solid points.

There's a reason both my builds recommend bandit to start. Even with 1 int looking stupid on a magic weapon, it makes virtually no difference to AR and saves one soul level even when investing in atn.

I still think having at least one attunement slot is worthwhile for arena duels. You'll never chase down anyone with this build's slow running attacks so unless you pack a sidearm to finish people off, which kind of defeats the point of a dual smelter sword build, anyone who wants to heal on you easily will. 20 endurance and a heavy loadout with no ranged options of any kind just screams "please heal on me, I can't stop you".

I'm highly skeptical of the viability of 92agl rolls, but you'd certainly know better than I do.
Last edited by boolean; Jan 19, 2020 @ 10:57am
Turt Jan 19, 2020 @ 11:11am 
Looked into the agility stat. According to the wiki, the difference between 92 and 99 agility is about .1 seconds of invulnerability. Don't know if that's a giant difference or not though.

I also found a video of some dude pulling off this build. Although his way was simply parry then follow up with powerstanced explosion. And it looked GLORIOUS.

For PvP, I won't lie, I've always been slightly bad at it so loosing isn't something new to me lol. I've always been more about the fun and style than the meta and overpowered. Just my way of life. I can take a loss or two. Just gotta gid gud and make some sexy explosions. That's all that matters.
boolean Jan 19, 2020 @ 11:27am 
If you're much better than your opponents to the point that they keep throwing unsafe r1s, giving you backstep parry setups, or you consistently hard read their attack timing, almost anything is threatening. Hell, sorceries/pyros can be "viable" if you're the God of the buckler/parrying dagger. A nice Crystal homing soul mass+soul bolt/css or flame swathe+fire whip to the face after getting parried hurts very, very badly.

That .066 extra invincible seconds makes a huge difference with high equip load and therefore low roll distance, but now that I think about it, it mostly helps against lingering hotboxes, which aren't as common in pvp as in pve. 92 might be okay but it will definitely get frustrating at times I'd bet

Last edited by boolean; Jan 19, 2020 @ 11:27am
Turt Jan 19, 2020 @ 11:32am 
Got it. I'll probably stick with 92 for now, but if it's too much of a pain I can always soul vessel my stats to a higher agility.
How hard is parrying in DS2? I'm decent with DS1 parrying, but I don't think I've ever tried parrying in this game lol.
TrueArchery Jan 19, 2020 @ 12:27pm 
Parrying is mostly bad because you can see it coming from miles away and failed attempts can be punished hard. It's one of those mechanics that's essentially irrelevant past very casual fights because it's too inconsistent.
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Date Posted: Jan 16, 2020 @ 1:47pm
Posts: 13