Espada Ropera vs Ice Rapier.

[Artrysa]

I have seen a lot of people saying that the ice rapier is better than the espada. but looking into the stats on the wiki I can't find any significant advantage on one or the other. The ice rapier has a special ability but that's about it. The espada has better scaling but that's the only difference I could really find. So which one is actually better to use in PVP and why?

[Call Sign: Raven]

The Ice Rapier, because it's ability is killer in PvP. It's great at roll catching, and if you are lucky enough to do it from point blank you get the rapier hit AND the projectile to stack. That would be it's significant advantage. Just don't try to spam it from a distance, as it's too easy to dodge.

[Fabshin]

Ice rapier is longer too

[Bishop]

Ice rapier is the best choice for magic infusion + CMW because its special ability and its also the longest rapier available. For pure dex things may be different.

From what I found checking different rapiers on different stat ranges the highest physical damage rapier for high dex build is actually Ricard (e.g. it has 345 AR with 80 dex, which translates in 445 AR with Rob+Flynn equiped).

[TrueArchery]

The special attack is garbage lol.

People use the Ice Rapier because it's long (the Estoc is still longer I believe, maybe the Spider's Silk, too) and because it gets unusually high base damage when you infuse it, the majority of it being physical which is the best damage type.
Dark is the best overall PvP infusion, not Magic.
It doesn't need any scaling to be damaging (not that it gets any relevant scaling anyway) and it chips shields.

Ricard's Rapier is the strongest physical Thrusting Sword at 60+ Dex but that's just a silly build unless you are at a very high level. It also has a terrible strong attack and isn't much stronger anyway. Like by 20 AR in the most extreme case, but with a proper build with some Str and not hard capped Dex it'll be more like around 10 additional AR which isn't much in a 400+ environment.

Additionally, buffs scale with AR so an infused Ice Rapier is buffed more than any other Thrusting Sword. I don't know how much of an effect scaling has on buffs, never tested it, but I believe buffs favor base damage. This Ray Dhimitri guy on YouTube who occasionally uploads videos of him bodying NG+7 bosses with his max level char also uses the Espada and not Ricard's (and tons of buffs) despite the latter having a tad more AR, so that supports my assumption.

[Artrysa]

I see. Btw, that's another thing I never quite understood. How much extra damage should a infusion give in order for it to be better than raw physical damage? Most weapons have their damage decreased by 30% or so and the remaining doubled in elemental. Would this be worth the infusion or is it better to go for physical. There are of course weapons that are basically made to be in fused like the Blue Knight Halberd but most other weapons are in a grey area for me.

[TrueArchery]

Generally you should just use physical weapons and keep some elemental ones in the inventory to use against shields.

There are some weapons which are basically always better off with an element, like the Ice Rapier or the Lost Sinner Sword. Bottom line: Bad scaling and high base damage -> infuse and good scaling and low base damage -> don't infuse. But of course those extremes are rather rare and most weapons just are in the middle so both ways work and it mostly depends on your build.

If you keep your Str/Dex low, infusions are almost always worth it.

If you have high Str/Dex, infusions aren't necessarily bad, but you just wasted a lot of levels because infused weapons have poor scaling, so you should keep most of your stuff uninfused. That alone is of course a somewhat stupid reason to not infuse, but it's actually also a smart move and not just "childish defiance". Because while the damage often is quite comparable, the physical version is more reliable and less shafted by people stacking defense.

If you plan to buff your weapons with spells you should definitely infuse due to the (almost always guaranteed and significant) AR increase. Buffs scale with the AR of the weapon that they're casted onto. More AR = more effective buffs.

Something that is not directly related to your question, but still important: The requirements to wield a weapon. Weapons with low requirements are more suitable for infusions because you don't have to spend many points in Str/Dex that become rather pointless when you infuse the weapon.

[Artrysa]

That helps a lot, thanks!

[Griggs]

I'm morally obligated to vouch for the espada ropera over the ice rapier. *has vietnam flashbacks to when the arena was only warped swords and ice rapier users*

[Call Sign: Raven]

The Ice Rapier is also quite broken when you infuse it, as it barely loses any scaling.

Archery, I hit for over 700 with an R2+Projectile+Old Leo Ring, so I wouldn't go as far to call the projectile garbage. It's easy to dodge from a distance, but that's the point. It's far more effective at point blank, and throws a lot of people off when I use it that way. There's a reason that the item is tucked away behind a DLC!