What are the new mechanics here from DS1?

[DuelShockX]

I'm about come to this game next after I beat Gwyn one last time then move onto this game. What are the new mechanics and the ones that changed from DS1? I heard there's some changes in how things work can someone explain them to me?

[A Regular Italian Plumber]

Escrito originalmente por DuelShockX:

Dang it, curse you lag stabs. And you forgot to put BOTH DS2 games in your personal ranking. Once again plain DS2 (not this one) is unacknowledged again in a discussion.

Put it a pube hair above SOTFS. You ever play Bloodborne?

[A Regular Italian Plumber]

Escrito originalmente por DuelShockX:

What kind of weapon do you guys recommend for me? A horizontal sweeping weapon or vertical? Or one that can do both depending on how you hold it like zweihender?

Strike does disproportionately high damage compared to other weapon types in this game, so if you want to stomp on nearly every boss except maybe 2 or 3 of them go with a mace or a large club. And yes, movesets generally change a bit once you 2h them. You'll need to check Fextralife for the breakdown of what type of swing is done in each moveset.

[TrueArchery]

Escrito originalmente por HeWhosKnownAsIAm:

Cons:
-Repairable ring of sacrifice makes death a none issue very quickly

-Estus flasks and droppable recovery items trivialize the game's difficulty when you can have 99 healing items and 12 estus'

-Estus is now a slow heal

-Not made by the same team that made DS, DkS, BB, or DkS3

-More 1 shot kills (usually a command grab like the one above)

-Nearly every boss is just a large humanoid with a big weapon and all have similar movesets (2-4 horizontal swipes, big overhead slam with too much tracking, etc)

-Pivoting while attacking with small weapons has been removed

-Slower animations

-Lag stabs not yet fixed

-Weapons will regularly break during normal gameplay due to new durability system
-Levels designed around abusing the durability system (dur loss multiplyer for hitting dead bodies combined with huge mobs of enemies, tight corridors with lots of enemies in them, etc

You surely brought up a few points of valid criticism, but this is just half bs half biased

- Ring of Sacrifice is expensive to repair. Noone uses it any more. It used to the the ♥♥♥♥ in the vanilla game because it was cheap to repair, but it isn't nowadays.

- Doesn't stop people from dying against the common hollows, the heals are more for inbetween. More enemies, more heals. You'd whine how unfair the game is when they just gave you your Estus. Also don't forget that DaS1 had 99x Humanity and Twin Humanity, DBs, Demon's Souls' grass...

- What oneshots you other than the ogre and maybe Vendrick? At the start, mainly, unless you went with base HP through the whole game. Compared to Havel, the Undead Dragon etc. which are a pain right at the start? Compared to the Red Knights in DeS?

- it isn't slow. It's just no instant heal, but a rather fast heal-over-time. Considering that the whole game is overall slower, you can't poisetank and chug mid-battle without thinking much about it. It's basically a bit more technical now.

- Are you a Miyazaki sucker? Or why would you list "other developers" as a con as if that's the cancer itself?

- Okay, many humanoid bosses. Fair enough. But man, DaS1 or DeS movesets aren't ANY MORE VERSATILE lol

- No idea what you mean

- biased, why is overall slower = worse?

- it's hella better than 1, you can now actually escape them and if you knew how they worked, you'd be able to avoid them completely

- Weapons don't break from one bonfire to another unless you hit every copse and wall you find. Durability is actually NOT 100% redundant like in 1 or 3.

I mean all fair and square that you like it the least, but you're pretty biased here.

Like, already Demon's Souls older graphics and fps-weaknesses, dumb online, grass and spice absurdity, CARRY LOAD, non-existant balance and all that make it worse, no matter how nostalgically you remember the Tower or Latria's atmosphere. The inability to teleport between the worlds was also quite annoying.

[TrueArchery]

Escrito originalmente por HeWhosKnownAsIAm:

Strike does disproportionately high damage compared to other weapon types in this game

No, it doesn't lol, don't lie. It's surely very useful for a couple of annoying enemies who're weaker to blunt, but this is so highly exaggerated... especially regarding bosses. Also the highest is the Pursuer's 150% strike, in most cases it's far less.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Escrito originalmente por DuelShockX:

What kind of weapon do you guys recommend for me? A horizontal sweeping weapon or vertical? Or one that can do both depending on how you hold it like zweihender?

oh yeah btw the zweihander two handed r2 is different than in dark souls 1. Or maybe its just the one handed r2. For sure though one of them is different. If you're going for a strength build it's always a toss up between the claymore, the zwei, or the greatsword (which is way bigger than it was in dark souls 1, which is good for fans of Berserk, haha). If you're going the dex route well there's katanas, curved sword, spears (a lot of good ones in dark souls 2), large curved swords like the murakumo (not many to chose from here). Lances are a combo of strength and dex. Lances are a fine tuned quality build type of weapon because they eat stamina like crazy afaik.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Oh and of course there's scythes for dex too.

[myoptic]

Escrito originalmente por TrueArchery:

Escrito originalmente por HeWhosKnownAsIAm:

Strike does disproportionately high damage compared to other weapon types in this game

No, it doesn't lol, don't lie. It's surely very useful for a couple of annoying enemies who're weaker to blunt, but this is so highly exaggerated... especially regarding bosses. Also the highest is the Pursuer's 150% strike, in most cases it's far less.

The thrusting swords have way higher dps than strike weapons. If OP wants a boss melter, try an infused rapier w the old leo ring. You don't even have to level dex beyond base stats until later if you don't want to.

[DuelShockX]

I'm not good in dex builds so up to how much should I lvl it up and not need it from there on out so I don't find weapons that need more? DS1 was 23 dexter minimum to be set off.

[myoptic]

Escrito originalmente por DuelShockX:

I'm not good in dex builds so up to how much should I lvl it up and not need it from there on out so I don't find weapons that need more? DS1 was 23 dexter minimum to be set off.

my str builds usually have 40 str and 20 dex. thats usually enough dex to meet all the requirements for my weapons.

don't forget that you can spend a soul vessel in things betwixt to respec if you feel like you made a mistake or want to try something new.

[A Regular Italian Plumber]

Escrito originalmente por TrueArchery:

You surely brought up a few points of valid criticism, but this is just half bs half biased

- Ring of Sacrifice is expensive to repair. Noone uses it any more. It used to the the ♥♥♥♥ in the vanilla game because it was cheap to repair, but it isn't nowadays.

- Doesn't stop people from dying against the common hollows, the heals are more for inbetween. More enemies, more heals. You'd whine how unfair the game is when they just gave you your Estus. Also don't forget that DaS1 had 99x Humanity and Twin Humanity, DBs, Demon's Souls' grass...

- What oneshots you other than the ogre and maybe Vendrick? At the start, mainly, unless you went with base HP through the whole game. Compared to Havel, the Undead Dragon etc. which are a pain right at the start? Compared to the Red Knights in DeS?

- it isn't slow. It's just no instant heal, but a rather fast heal-over-time. Considering that the whole game is overall slower, you can't poisetank and chug mid-battle without thinking much about it. It's basically a bit more technical now.

- Are you a Miyazaki sucker? Or why would you list "other developers" as a con as if that's the cancer itself?

- Okay, many humanoid bosses. Fair enough. But man, DaS1 or DeS movesets aren't ANY MORE VERSATILE lol

- No idea what you mean

- biased, why is overall slower = worse?

- it's hella better than 1, you can now actually escape them and if you knew how they worked, you'd be able to avoid them completely

- Weapons don't break from one bonfire to another unless you hit every copse and wall you find. Durability is actually NOT 100% redundant like in 1 or 3.

I mean all fair and square that you like it the least, but you're pretty biased here.

Like, already Demon's Souls older graphics and fps-weaknesses, dumb online, grass and spice absurdity, CARRY LOAD, non-existant balance and all that make it worse, no matter how nostalgically you remember the Tower or Latria's atmosphere. The inability to teleport between the worlds was also quite annoying.

Ill address each point individually.

1)How many people use an item does not change its core mechanic, late game 14k souls is nothing and if you recall in the base game its 3k. Its more or less a easy mode starting about midway thru the game and the soul series is supposed to be a break from the endless concessions so many other games make to appeal to people who refuse to adapt to the game and play better.

2)You entirely miss the point, in DkS you were forced to make actual decisions of when to use estus. You could use it with a little health missing to top yourself off so the next big ambush wouldnt kill you but you would leave yourself with less estus, you could on the other hand choose to wait till you take more hits to maximize its usefulness. In DkS2 you just pop a gem you can easily buy from unlimited supply about 20 min into the game, all that tension of when to use estus is gone. That was my point. I never said it made you immune to death. Also humanity had a VERY long animation and could not be used while moving, you're being dishonest comparing an item that was limited in supply and needed to be farmed to something you can buy for the price of 300 souls or dozens for the cost of one high level kill. Getting 99 humanity takes HOURS of farming the depths (I recently did this to get rank 2 in the chaos servent covenant (30 humanity). With the max item discovery of 410 it took me around an hour and a half to get them as a cleric one shotting entire groups of rats with Wrath of the gods then using the homward miracle to repeat). Meanwhile getting 99 gems is as easy as killing a few mobs. The estus system was a HUGE upgrade from DS's herb system and DkS2 takes both and combines them to make both worse. You're supposed to begin panicking when you're low on estus, it was used as a means to add tension to the game. All of that tension is gone from this game.

3)Multiple ogres BS grab with the mentioned suck effect, Fire casters in earthen peak, pursuer command grab in the first encounter, Ogre charging thru the door in aldia's keep etc... and countless unavoidable combos or stunlocks from hordes of enemies.

4)Going from instant to a heal over time is what the rest of the world would refer to as slower...

5)Removing the man who was responsable for making the series, then removing all the original programmers, the map designers, the 3D modelers, and introducing a whole new engine is not a good way to make a sequel. The various issues with the game show this to be true. DS DkS BB and DkS3 are widly regarded as fantastic games because they were created by a skilled team that had a very talent director.

6) Yes they were, every boss didnt have a overhead, a 2-4 weapon combo, and a gap closer. Some did but most were very different. The taurus and stray demons are an example of bosses that were similar in design but did not utilize the same moveset. Both used sweeps and overheads, but that's where it ended. Stray had multiple AOEs, a ground pound, combos, and a move to punish people behind him, taurus had none of these but had his own jumping attacks, a verticality aspect to his arena and a gap closer. Even the most similar bosses were fundimentally different.

7)Exactly what I said, you could adjust your angle of attack early in the animation in DkS. This was removed in DkS2 for all weapons but large ones.

8)If you find slow animations fun go play Lords of the Fallen. Having to wait several seconds after getting knocked down to respond does not feel fun or fair. I dont mind dying but when im killed because my character is taking his sweet ass time getting up after one of those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ overhead slams knocks me down while a dozen other mobs rip me apart because I cant respond is taking it a bit far. The combat is almost twitch based in the other games, and this combined with the inaccuracy of the hitboxes makes the game feel like Dark Souls covered in pitch.

9)Slightly better is not fixing just like stepping on 1 nail is not much better than stepping on 2. You still have people teleporting around and bugging out due to the games terrible netcode.

10)You're argument is as long as you dont explore the game and fight enemies too much, a tedious mechanic isint a problem. Do you see how odd that is?


No clue why you keep talking about Demon's souls when the comparison I was making was what the OP asked about, Dark Souls to Dark Souls 2. I only mentioned DS when I ranked my personal opinion of the souls/borne series and how the origional team was replaced. Why do you think I ranked DS lower than DkS. I don't find it as appealing as DkS but still found the world and mechanics more engaging than DkS2 dispite its many flaws.

Nothing Im saying is without evidence backing it, I would hardly call something you disagree with biased as much as I would say a different opinion of what matters in the game.

[myoptic]

Escrito originalmente por HeWhosKnownAsIAm:

Escrito originalmente por TrueArchery:

You surely brought up a few points of valid criticism, but this is just half bs half biased

- Ring of Sacrifice is expensive to repair. Noone uses it any more. It used to the the ♥♥♥♥ in the vanilla game because it was cheap to repair, but it isn't nowadays.

- Doesn't stop people from dying against the common hollows, the heals are more for inbetween. More enemies, more heals. You'd whine how unfair the game is when they just gave you your Estus. Also don't forget that DaS1 had 99x Humanity and Twin Humanity, DBs, Demon's Souls' grass...

- What oneshots you other than the ogre and maybe Vendrick? At the start, mainly, unless you went with base HP through the whole game. Compared to Havel, the Undead Dragon etc. which are a pain right at the start? Compared to the Red Knights in DeS?

- it isn't slow. It's just no instant heal, but a rather fast heal-over-time. Considering that the whole game is overall slower, you can't poisetank and chug mid-battle without thinking much about it. It's basically a bit more technical now.

- Are you a Miyazaki sucker? Or why would you list "other developers" as a con as if that's the cancer itself?

- Okay, many humanoid bosses. Fair enough. But man, DaS1 or DeS movesets aren't ANY MORE VERSATILE lol

- No idea what you mean

- biased, why is overall slower = worse?

- it's hella better than 1, you can now actually escape them and if you knew how they worked, you'd be able to avoid them completely

- Weapons don't break from one bonfire to another unless you hit every copse and wall you find. Durability is actually NOT 100% redundant like in 1 or 3.

I mean all fair and square that you like it the least, but you're pretty biased here.

Like, already Demon's Souls older graphics and fps-weaknesses, dumb online, grass and spice absurdity, CARRY LOAD, non-existant balance and all that make it worse, no matter how nostalgically you remember the Tower or Latria's atmosphere. The inability to teleport between the worlds was also quite annoying.

Ill address each point individually.

1)How many people use an item does not change its core mechanic, late game 14k souls is nothing and if you recall in the base game its 3k. Its more or less a easy mode starting about midway thru the game and the soul series is supposed to be a break from the endless concessions so many other games make to appeal to people who refuse to adapt to the game and play better.

2)You entirely miss the point, in DkS you were forced to make actual decisions of when to use estus. You could use it with a little health missing to top yourself off so the next big ambush wouldnt kill you but you would leave yourself with less estus, you could on the other hand choose to wait till you take more hits to maximize its usefulness. In DkS2 you just pop a gem you can easily buy from unlimited supply about 20 min into the game, all that tension of when to use estus is gone. That was my point. I never said it made you immune to death. Also humanity had a VERY long animation and could not be used while moving, you're being dishonest comparing an item that was limited in supply and needed to be farmed to something you can buy for the price of 300 souls or dozens for the cost of one high level kill. Getting 99 humanity takes HOURS of farming the depths (I recently did this to get rank 2 in the chaos servent covenant (30 humanity). With the max item discovery of 410 it took me around an hour and a half to get them as a cleric one shotting entire groups of rats with Wrath of the gods then using the homward miracle to repeat). Meanwhile getting 99 gems is as easy as killing a few mobs. The estus system was a HUGE upgrade from DS's herb system and DkS2 takes both and combines them to make both worse. You're supposed to begin panicking when you're low on estus, it was used as a means to add tension to the game. All of that tension is gone from this game.

3)Multiple ogres BS grab with the mentioned suck effect, Fire casters in earthen peak, pursuer command grab in the first encounter, Ogre charging thru the door in aldia's keep etc... and countless unavoidable combos or stunlocks from hordes of enemies.

4)Going from instant to a heal over time is what the rest of the world would refer to as slower...

5)Removing the man who was responsable for making the series, then removing all the original programmers, the map designers, the 3D modelers, and introducing a whole new engine is not a good way to make a sequel. The various issues with the game show this to be true. DS DkS BB and DkS3 are widly regarded as fantastic games because they were created by a skilled team that had a very talent director.

6) Yes they were, every boss didnt have a overhead, a 2-4 weapon combo, and a gap closer. Some did but most were very different. The taurus and stray demons are an example of bosses that were similar in design but did not utilize the same moveset. Both used sweeps and overheads, but that's where it ended. Stray had multiple AOEs, a ground pound, combos, and a move to punish people behind him, taurus had none of these but had his own jumping attacks, a verticality aspect to his arena and a gap closer. Even the most similar bosses were fundimentally different.

7)Exactly what I said, you could adjust your angle of attack early in the animation in DkS. This was removed in DkS2 for all weapons but large ones.

8)If you find slow animations fun go play Lords of the Fallen. Having to wait several seconds after getting knocked down to respond does not feel fun or fair. I dont mind dying but when im killed because my character is taking his sweet ass time getting up after one of those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ overhead slams knocks me down while a dozen other mobs rip me apart because I cant respond is taking it a bit far. The combat is almost twitch based in the other games, and this combined with the inaccuracy of the hitboxes makes the game feel like Dark Souls covered in pitch.

9)Slightly better is not fixing just like stepping on 1 nail is not much better than stepping on 2. You still have people teleporting around and bugging out due to the games terrible netcode.

10)You're argument is as long as you dont explore the game and fight enemies too much, a tedious mechanic isint a problem. Do you see how odd that is?


No clue why you keep talking about Demon's souls when the comparison I was making was what the OP asked about, Dark Souls to Dark Souls 2. I only mentioned DS when I ranked my personal opinion of the souls/borne series and how the origional team was replaced. Why do you think I ranked DS lower than DkS. I don't find it as appealing as DkS but still found the world and mechanics more engaging than DkS2 dispite its many flaws.

Nothing Im saying is without evidence backing it, I would hardly call something you disagree with biased as much as I would say a different opinion of what matters in the game.

This is, in my opinion, a pretty typical criticism of DS2. You complain about things that are either small or non issues or problems that the other souls games also have.

Instead of trying to bias OPs experience to mirror you own, why don't you stop complaining and let him experience the game.

[DuelShockX]

About the humanity part. It's easy to get it in the final area of the DLC for DS1. Have you tried going there?

[A Regular Italian Plumber]

"Stop thinking! Just shut up and enjoy the things I like!"

-Every fanboy ever

You find the issues typical because they are legitimate concerns that are easily identified and people who dislike the game generally do so because of these reasons. You're free to like any game you want but dont tell me what I should and shouldnt feel.

OP asked for the differences from 1 to 2 and I did just that. Why dont you go harass someone who is overly positive about the game or are you just "biased" and dislike people with opposing opinions?

BTW did you just learned the word "biased" or something? The word you're looking for here is "influence". Once again he asked for information on the game, and I gave him just that. Not my fault you take personal offence to someone disliking something you enjoy.

[A Regular Italian Plumber]

Escrito originalmente por DuelShockX:

About the humanity part. It's easy to get it in the final area of the DLC for DS1. Have you tried going there?

Nah I was at Lost Izalith trying to unlock the shortcut to save solaire and hadn't yet gone thru the DLC. That character is in NG+ now, but I'll be sure to check out that spot next time I play thru the game and make a pyro since I doubt I'll bother saving him again. Way too much work for literally no payoff, especially when its just plain more fun to fight him.

[myoptic]

Escrito originalmente por HeWhosKnownAsIAm:

"Stop thinking! Just shut up and enjoy the things I like!"

-Every fanboy ever

You find the issues typical because they are legitimate concerns that are easily identified and people who dislike the game generally do so because of these reasons. You're free to like any game you want but dont tell me what I should and shouldnt feel.

OP asked for the differences from 1 to 2 and I did just that. Why dont you go harass someone who is overly positive about the game or are you just "biased" and dislike people with opposing opinions?

BTW did you just learned the word "biased" or something? The word you're looking for here is "influence". Once again he asked for information on the game, and I gave him just that. Not my fault you take personal offence to someone disliking something you enjoy.

do always respond to criticism with personal attacks?