Zero-k vs B.A.R

[ComplexRegionalBaconSyndrome]

I am curious of your thoughts between the two. I recently found B.A.R. I do prefer Zero-k. But There aren't enough players.

[dotVeskan]

BAR is great
allows hyperfocus on anyone major aspect of the game from econ to scouting etc

My favorite part of BAR is the econ share + factions with a more distinct identity
The biggest drawbacks for me playing with friends is the absolute need to micro every unit engagement and the lack of tutorial/ coop material to teach friends other than through trials of fire

Zero-k feels much more fast paced as early econ and harassment + expansion is the NECESSITY especially when every unit types only hindrance is their cost and not tech level locked

Where as in BAR someone CAN turtle and provide major benefits to the team through ECON share. The locking units behind tech tiers and keeping higher power units out of possible early game rushes is really nice and adds clear stepping stones in power projection and expansion play.

Zero-k does this tech in a psuedo fashion just by locking the usability of amassing expensive units behind expanding your own econ.

BAR's teamwork isnt only just coop micro engagements but the macro of econ share
Zero-k's is all about capturing expansions and handing off econ for allies to swap your mex for theirs

Theyre both great games and it seems BAR is just having a recent uptick in popularity due to how many new rts games are slowly coming and BAR may be getting cross traffic through social media as well as how old zero-k is and the playerbase fatigue of the same game for 11-13 years
If BAR does get more popular expect a small uptick in player traffic to zero-k as well cause why not have 2 if somewhat similar but different rts' to play

I honestly just found zero-k with my friends yesterday and we've been having a blast though granted even easy bots are ripping us... we'll get better!
We're probably gonna be stuck on Zero-k for a long while over BAR as some of our friends rigs run integrated and no dedicated gpus so the low reqs and the coop micro are definitely gonna keep us here awhile

[dotVeskan]

oh to add i found zero-k because BAR's own website mentions it and pays much due respect to the project
not a single word of belittlement and they go so far to say zero-k is their older sibling which i found adorable

[He Who Has No Name]

BAR is closer in philosophy and content to the granddaddy of all of these, UberHack (the major balance / overhaul mod for Total Annihilation).
There are units in BAR that were actually created by BSR, the main author of UH, and that were not in original stock TA or TA+CC.

[GoogleFrog]

That's right. BAR is much more a custodian of old designs, updating the visuals for a new generation. ZK is building on those designs, reevaluating everything and either doubling down on an aspect or throwing it away. To me that makes BAR look outdated, but that is specific to me because I've spent so long solving the issues they come across, and they are hewing too close to the old designs to come across issues that are new to me. I played the predecessor to BAR back in the day though, and it's fine.

[He Who Has No Name]

Originally posted by GoogleFrog:

That's right. BAR is much more a custodian of old designs, updating the visuals for a new generation. ZK is building on those designs, reevaluating everything and either doubling down on an aspect or throwing it away. To me that makes BAR look outdated, but that is specific to me because I've spent so long solving the issues they come across, and they are hewing too close to the old designs to come across issues that are new to me. I played the predecessor to BAR back in the day though, and it's fine.

I was part of the original UH community, so BAR feels like a pair of comfortable old shoes. I actually traveled with Mike (BSR) to the UH Lan Party at Grumble's place in Kelowna the summer of '02. Very cool guy, got to talk game design theory the whole time for a four hour drive home. :D

[GoogleFrog]

Wow, very cool.

[NewCenturyCenturion]

BAR have 5000 units limit on map and better music for sure

[ComplexRegionalBaconSyndrome]

It would be awesome I'd byh ZK and and Bar developers worked together on a title that implements both games.

[Qsomenko]

Мужики! Только хотел спросить точно такой же вопрос

[Buddusky]

What about comparing both games' economy models?
I am not keen on the idea of receiving passive income from autonomous buildings akin to TA. Is either of them following this approach?

[GoogleFrog]

Originally posted by Buddusky:

What about comparing both games' economy models?
I am not keen on the idea of receiving passive income from autonomous buildings akin to TA. Is either of them following this approach?

Luckily I just wrote this: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/334920/view/3990819338898810107

In short, BAR uses the same system as TA while ZK improved on it.

[puschit]

I don't think there is a need for rivalry/ d1ck measuring contest. Both games are fine and can benefit from each other's existance. I got to know about BAR first and liked it precisely for what it is: An updated version of TA that builds on top of it. In fact that's what I was searching for because I remember the Spring project from back in the days and wondered what happened to it. It has instant familarity and recognition, yet enough new things to explore, plays fluently and now has a campaign - in fact it is developing rapidly, the pace is astonishing for a fan driven project.

However, getting into BAR and watching associating clips I also got to know about Zero-K and wanted to check it out. I am not far in, just checked the tutorial and red some reviews. So far I prefer BAR and can't share your notion that it looks outdated. In fact, the UI of Zero-K is the one that is ... ugly? However, you can instantly feel the advantages of Zero-K in smarter unit movement, contextual automatic building options, auto-reclaim etc., stuff like that. That's where you know that the devs played TA and probably SupCom ad nauseaum and added all the things they always missed.

Considering both games are free to play so you can check them out without any upfront investment, I'd say both games will benefit from each other. BAR has a run now in popularity beause streamers pick it up and because generally there is a recent intrest in old-school RTS right now. And they will release on Steam (this year I think), so there will be another big boost. And I believe that that helps promoting the genre as a whole and will also make some of those players aware of Zero-K.

I mean, I was and still am an avid FAF player. That means I watched Gyle's casts. Gyle promoted Sanctuary, so I am eager to check it out once it is released. I am also playing Factorio a lot, so one day YouTube suggested a video about Industrial Annihilation to me. I found Ashes of Singularity: Escalation via 50gameslike dot com and bought it. And a few days ago the YT algo struck again and showed me a very well made video that compiled a list of TA-successors, Zero-K was among them and, well, here I am. If someone gets that video suggested because he plays BAR he will now know of Zero-K, too. And it's free, so, a no-brainer, you'll at least check it out.

EDIT:
BTW, according to SteamCharts Zero-K gained new players last couple of months! +30 average players and +60 peak since august

[GoogleFrog]

+1 to a lot of the above.
Also, the player boost seemed to initially be from the Magpie and Odin update.

[puschit]

BTW, meanwhile I played some missions and it might interest you that, at least for me, one of the key features is that you can adjust game speed any time. This means I can slow everything down to have time to read tooltips, unit stats etc. while still playing and I can, if I want to, micro as much as I want. This goes a long way to accessability. Unfortunately game speed isn't displayed anywhere and I get no feedback when I press +/-. So, small Qol-suggestion: briefly display game speed when I adjust it, like SupCom/FAF does. Better yet: add a slider (with an option in the setting to hide it). I bet many new players don't even know that you can adjust game speed. Which is unfortunate, because the main reason why new players abandon games early is when they get overwhelmed buy units, features and early harrassment. Slowing things down helps releaving stress and anxiety. And later on when you are proficient you can speed things up.

[GoogleFrog]

That's a nice idea. Would a game speed menu ingame under Settings be enough you think? For now you can type /speed to see game speed in the top right.