Zero-K A Copy Of Beyond All Reason?

[Shadow.exe]

As I've played Zero-K I've noticed a lot of similarities between it and Beyond All Reason, I'd like to know if anyone has any similar opinions to mine. Just in case your not famillar with Beyond All Reason here is their home page. https://www.beyondallreason.info/

[Yuithgf]

or it could be that both are taking inspirations from the same old RTS games and both are made with spring RTS

(not very familiar with BAR but 1) didnt it start development after 0-k and 2) it does seem to have major differences, like several factions)

[Shadow.exe]

Yeah i see your point, I just say this because BAR is the first game I've ever seen with a large host of units and factories and a larger toy box when it comes to taking down the opposition. Zero-K however has developed a lot of these qualities as well, there are some unit and name similarities with the Big Bertha Artillery Cannon and Krow Flying Fortress units, Big Bertha being sourced from the Armada side meanwhile the Krow being sourced from the Cortex. It's just an opinion at the end of the day though and it easily could just be taking inspiration from BAR but you know I thought it was interesting.

[terve886]

https://www.beyondallreason.info/faq/what-are-the-differences-between-bar-and-zerok

[Shadow.exe]

Oh I see, this explains a lot, thank you.

[GoogleFrog]

They diverged from the same source in 2007. BAR is still mostly the same game as it was in 2007 gameplay wise, as its devs have been focusing on graphics, inheriting fairly TA-like gameplay from its predecessor. Zero-K also replaced the art of 2007, but the focus here has been on reevaluating every part of the design, removing bits and pushing other bits as far as they can go. The design philosophies are also different, with ZK putting more of a focus on unit choice and control than economic management. As a result, many of the individual mechanics you'd find in BAR are either not present or exaggerated to their logical conclusion.

For example, most of the penalties of energy stalling as well as the varying metal:energy drain ratios of BAR are not present in ZK, because these mechanics introduce the kind of economic makework that is against the ZK design philosophy. In the other direction, unit and factory diversity is much higher in ZK, and projectile physics is more varied and impactful. If it's worth having in the game, it's worth making it impactful, otherwise get rid of it. A similar idea is behind the "extra" systems such as terraforming and jumpjets. It isn't enough for these to exist - they also need to be designed and balanced in a way that will see fun use in competitive games.

[shado3ofneo]

Shadow.exe a écrit :

As I've played Zero-K I've noticed a lot of similarities between it and Beyond All Reason, I'd like to know if anyone has any similar opinions to mine. Just in case your not familiar with Beyond All Reason here is their home page. https://www.beyondallreason.info/

Well, firstly, zero-k has been around for quite some time, I can admit I don't know how long BAR has been quietly developing in the background, but what I do know is what zero-k has that bar doesn't and visa versa.
Zero-k has more varied units, including cloak and shield specific units, but the way it handles power and resources is slightly more restricting, as BAR has energy convertors, that mutates energy into metal matter, something zero-k can not do
In Zero-k you can however overcharge metal extractors simply by concentrating energy production in their proximity, they both have a lot of strengths but the way BAR is setup, it plays a lot more balanced through multiplayer than zero-k, zero-k is terribly easy to rush in, but equally easy to setup a terrifying defense.

[Musical Jacob]

shado3ofneo a écrit :

Shadow.exe a écrit :

As I've played Zero-K I've noticed a lot of similarities between it and Beyond All Reason, I'd like to know if anyone has any similar opinions to mine. Just in case your not familiar with Beyond All Reason here is their home page. https://www.beyondallreason.info/

Well, firstly, zero-k has been around for quite some time, I can admit I don't know how long BAR has been quietly developing in the background, but what I do know is what zero-k has that bar doesn't and visa versa.
Zero-k has more varied units, including cloak and shield specific units, but the way it handles power and resources is slightly more restricting, as BAR has energy convertors, that mutates energy into metal matter, something zero-k can not do
In Zero-k you can however overcharge metal extractors simply by concentrating energy production in their proximity, they both have a lot of strengths but the way BAR is setup, it plays a lot more balanced through multiplayer than zero-k, zero-k is terribly easy to rush in, but equally easy to setup a terrifying defense.

Bro, this is a TWO YEAR OLD THREAD. Go home please. Thanks. ;)

[Yuithgf]

Musical Jacob a écrit :

Bro, this is a TWO YEAR OLD THREAD. Go home please. Thanks. ;)

Bro, this is a TWO YEAR OLD THREAD. Go home please. Thanks. ;)

[Moosey Fate]

shado3ofneo a écrit :

Shadow.exe a écrit :

As I've played Zero-K I've noticed a lot of similarities between it and Beyond All Reason, I'd like to know if anyone has any similar opinions to mine. Just in case your not familiar with Beyond All Reason here is their home page. https://www.beyondallreason.info/

Well, firstly, zero-k has been around for quite some time, I can admit I don't know how long BAR has been quietly developing in the background, but what I do know is what zero-k has that bar doesn't and visa versa.
Zero-k has more varied units, including cloak and shield specific units, but the way it handles power and resources is slightly more restricting, as BAR has energy convertors, that mutates energy into metal matter, something zero-k can not do
In Zero-k you can however overcharge metal extractors simply by concentrating energy production in their proximity, they both have a lot of strengths but the way BAR is setup, it plays a lot more balanced through multiplayer than zero-k, zero-k is terribly easy to rush in, but equally easy to setup a terrifying defense.

Thank you, this was immanently useful to me in 2023!!! Exactly the info I was looking for <3 <3

Hate naysayers who think old threads aren't useful.

[Vendrette]

GoogleFrog a écrit :

They diverged from the same source in 2007. BAR is still mostly the same game as it was in 2007 gameplay wise, as its devs have been focusing on graphics, inheriting fairly TA-like gameplay from its predecessor. Zero-K also replaced the art of 2007, but the focus here has been on reevaluating every part of the design, removing bits and pushing other bits as far as they can go...

Here in 2024.

Thank you for your answer, Developer.

[Link3000XD]

i just saw friends playing this today, surprised it came out 2018.
i didnt compare it with Beyond All Reason (dont know that title), however.
when i saw the gameplay i instantly was thinking off Planetary Annihilation Titans.
might as well ask bluntly,
who took inspiration from which?
is it a situation of dev teams cutting off from the original team doing their own game?
what are the big differences between the two games?

[GoogleFrog]

Both were inspired by Total Annihilation. ZK was developed and played for years before PA was announced, and we didn't have any direct contact with PA. I backed PA as a player and posted some ideas on their forums. I recall some bits of the PA interface being inspired by ZK, such as the area mex command, and the line move that was later modded in. I can't really think of anything from PA that went the other way.

I'd say the big differences stem from how they are developed. PA went with a big flashy feature, but I feel like the devs didn't hang around for long enough to flesh out the rest of the game. ZK is a community project that has been going steadily for about 16 years, so you'll find the sort of depth and polish you get from a game that is played by the devs long term. Some of my favourite differences are terrain manipulation in ZK, and the large unit roster.

I made some articles over the last year to explain some things like this. Here is the first, on the origins of ZK: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/334920/view/3868091084290486602

[Link3000XD]

GoogleFrog a écrit :

Both were inspired by Total Annihilation. ZK was developed and played for years before PA was announced, and we didn't have any direct contact with PA. I backed PA as a player and posted some ideas on their forums. I recall some bits of the PA interface being inspired by ZK, such as the area mex command, and the line move that was later modded in. I can't really think of anything from PA that went the other way.

I'd say the big differences stem from how they are developed. PA went with a big flashy feature, but I feel like the devs didn't hang around for long enough to flesh out the rest of the game. ZK is a community project that has been going steadily for about 16 years, so you'll find the sort of depth and polish you get from a game that is played by the devs long term. Some of my favourite differences are terrain manipulation in ZK, and the large unit roster.

I made some articles over the last year to explain some things like this. Here is the first, on the origins of ZK: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/334920/view/3868091084290486602

thanks for the answer! yeah the devs didnt stick around and went a shady path of """invest" into our new game""
the first thing i noticed is the animation of how buildings are built. a robot uses a form of spray and a building digitally manufactures itself from down to up.
well, i was just curious. im not pointing fingers like, this was done first by that one etc.
and besides, sadly PA Titans seems like a dead game by now. xwx

[SmokeDragon]

Link3000XD a écrit :

GoogleFrog a écrit :

I can't really think of anything from PA that went the other way.

you made the maps imaginary auto-generated phantom edges form into a ball looking like a planet.. that change gave it a very PA feel. quite a nice change in a long list of nice changes.