Cloakbots op?

[Blackguard]

Build faster than most units, outrange even the commander, still do loads of damage and cost practically nothing?

plz nerf

[Fumica]

No. Tell me how to counter Dante with cloakies.

[BurlsoL]

Cloakbot raiders have one of the shortest range raiders, which makes them vulnerable to being obliterated by a single riot unit or stardust tower.

Ronin fire a single unguided rocket making them more vulnerable against raiders and any other unit while other factory skirmishers can often fight back by kiting.

Sling have range, but no cloak and not very good aim.

Phantoms are high cost for low damage per second, and can be quickly countered with a handful of raider units.

Really, the only outlyers are the:

Anti-air which can do hit and run tactics or completely catch an air-focused player unexpectedly when they think you have a lack of air defense while being able to just remain undetected.

Imps which can be used well with micromanaging to lock down larger units or striders to make them vulnerable. Imps will explode their emp even when killed, making a swarm of a few of them fairly good for taking out sturdy targets if you have a suitable force waiting in back to deal the damage.

Iris which allow you to sneak groups of units (from other factories like tanks or spiders) behind enemy lines.


That said, cloaked units have the disadvantage of being fairly power-hungry, meaning that if you can damage or cripple an enemy's power generation, you can completely expose your enemy's units. Making the early counter for cloakbots being any kind of riot, raider unit, or anything with homing missiles, and the lategame counter being planes or gunships that you can use to firebomb enemy power centers.

[Blackguard]

Originally posted by BurlsoL:

Cloakbot raiders have one of the shortest range raiders, which makes them vulnerable to being obliterated by a single riot unit or stardust tower.

Ronin fire a single unguided rocket making them more vulnerable against raiders and any other unit while other factory skirmishers can often fight back by kiting.

Sling have range, but no cloak and not very good aim.

Phantoms are high cost for low damage per second, and can be quickly countered with a handful of raider units.

Really, the only outlyers are the:

Anti-air which can do hit and run tactics or completely catch an air-focused player unexpectedly when they think you have a lack of air defense while being able to just remain undetected.

Imps which can be used well with micromanaging to lock down larger units or striders to make them vulnerable. Imps will explode their emp even when killed, making a swarm of a few of them fairly good for taking out sturdy targets if you have a suitable force waiting in back to deal the damage.

Iris which allow you to sneak groups of units (from other factories like tanks or spiders) behind enemy lines.


That said, cloaked units have the disadvantage of being fairly power-hungry, meaning that if you can damage or cripple an enemy's power generation, you can completely expose your enemy's units. Making the early counter for cloakbots being any kind of riot, raider unit, or anything with homing missiles, and the lategame counter being planes or gunships that you can use to firebomb enemy power centers.

So the problem with that is that Ronins rockets might be unguided, but they're still direct fire, and they're fired in a way which hits moving targets, its still strong damage wise, and on top of that they have a large range and still move much much faster than most units ( even with the fact that they slow themselves down after they fire for three seconds) except for low HP raiders, which die super easily to Ronins, oh and they cost next to nothing.

Most people I've played on Ladder so far just spam ronins when they use cloakbots because they really are too strong and have practically no downside. The other bots are fine tbh

[GoogleFrog]

There is a long thread on this topic on our forum. Here is a link to a series of posts where I calculated some stats from 1v1 matchmaker data: http://zero-k.info/Forum/Post/184298#184298

Cloaky is definately popular but seems reasonably balanced in our data, with a winrate of between 47% and 54%, depending on how you filter by rank and rank disparity. The popularity is probably because the factory is designed with a low skill floor and, relatedly, its position at the start of the campaign. We'll keep tracking winrates and look to extending the stats to team games.

[BurlsoL]

Originally posted by Captain Metal:

Most people I've played on Ladder so far just spam ronins when they use cloakbots because they really are too strong and have practically no downside. The other bots are fine tbh

Most skirmish units are like this. You can use them in large groups to destroy defenses and engage assault units. But they are weak to raiders, riot, emp, and artillary. If grouped, hit the center to spread them out. If in a line, cross the T with a handful or raider or fast riot units.

If using cloakbots yourself, scythes work well since they can get close due to stealth, and break up clusters or attack the line man to man.

You can also always just kite using a dante. This unit has superior range, has about the same cost as 13 ronin, and leaves fire so ends up being very effective at dealing with any group of any unit other than artillary.


The trick to any fight in this game is trying to more economy efficient while countering your enemy. Masses of a single unit tend to be less effective than a good mix for this reason.

Also, if you have sufficient energy, you can take advantage of things like static stealth fields, or shields to protect static defenses or your own units near points of contention. This becomes helpful when using some types of artillary defensively.

[gajop]

ZK goes through waves when certain factories are popular. I remember cloakies being crap and people playing hovers, or shields. I don't believe all those periods were because of balance, but mostly popularity and belief of a certain meta's superiority

[Mr.YaR]

cloakbots always seemed as easy to counter imho =)

they are mostly strong at aerly game?

[BurlsoL]

Originally posted by Mr.YaR:

cloakbots always seemed as easy to counter imho =)

they are mostly strong at aerly game?

Mostly early game, and against unprepared people. The raider units are quick and swarm well since they are rapid fire. OP is also having trouble against their skirmisher units although I've always found them fairly weak compared to other factory skirmishers.

Personally, I see them more as a threat when using iris cloaking riot and artillary or phantoms since it becomes hard to detect until it is already inside your territory.

[kuba_mar]

Originally posted by BurlsoL:

Originally posted by Mr.YaR:

cloakbots always seemed as easy to counter imho =)

they are mostly strong at aerly game?

Mostly early game, and against unprepared people. The raider units are quick and swarm well since they are rapid fire. OP is also having trouble against their skirmisher units although I've always found them fairly weak compared to other factory skirmishers.

Personally, I see them more as a threat when using iris cloaking riot and artillary or phantoms since it becomes hard to detect until it is already inside your territory.

Most people dont realize how easy its for cloaked units to get past them, hell i got into ones base through the MAIN enternace.