Vampire and Vampire Hunter

[shapesifter13]

Hello Townies,

We have 2 new roles coming soon (early November).

Vampire - Neutral Evil
Vampires are a new faction that wants to bite or kill all Town, Mafia, Arsonists, Serial Killers and Werewolves.
If a role without night immunity is bitten by a Vampire, that role will turn into a Vampire(WWs are immune even on odd nights).
Vampires can talk at night with other Vampires (like Mafia)
The Spy can hear Vampires talk at night.
Vampires know who the other Vampires are.
After a user has been turned into a Vampire the Vampires must wait a day to claim another victim.
Vampires vote as a group to determine who they should bite. If there is a tie a player will be randomly chosen among the tie.
The youngest Vampire is always the one who visits their target (and thus potentially dying to a Veteran/Vampire Hunter)
If a Vampire visits a Vampire Hunter the Vampire will be staked in the heart and die.
Mafia are immune to Vampires.
Witch is immune to Vampires.

Vampire Hunter - Town Killing
Vampire Hunters exist as the Town counter to Vampires.
A Vampire Hunter cannot exist without a Vampire on the role list.
Vampire Hunters will visit players at night and if that player is a Vampire the Vampire Hunter will stake them in the heart, killing them.
If a Vampire tries to bite a Vampire Hunter at night, the Vampire Hunter will stake them in the heart.

Game Play Changes
The Vampires introduce an entirely new dynamic to Town of Salem. Someone that has been confirmed as a Town member can now be converted into an opposing faction against the Town. That player can then still pretend to be their original role while they are actually playing to win with their Vampire teammates. It introduces a whole new layer of deceit to the game!

[THE RTN]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.CreepDλy™:

Suggestions:
Maybe the doctor should be able to stop the infection?
Maybe the bodyguard should be able to kill a vampire if he attacks their target?
If the vampires can't consume blood, maybe they should die because of the sun?
Sheriff should be able to find them.
Make it so they don't turn into a vampire instantly?

Just a few suggestions, doesn't matter much :)

+1.

Vampire seems too overpowered but mafia is immune. So our topic is all about the town vs vampires. It seems unfair. There is a vampire slayer, ikr. But dunno. I totally agree with the doctor idea. There should be an infection. Vampires have to drink others blood or infect them. So, these ideas are (doctor and sun) great and realistic about vampires. But dunno about sheriff and bg. Sheriff shouldn't able to find them. A vampire would hide. And bg is op already, Kappa.

[shapesifter13]

Well anything that can kill can kill the Vamps, they are not immune. The VH is just able to discern Vampire from Town so he doesn't kill teammates.

[Illusion]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.CreepDλy™:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Delusional Illusion:

To be honest what if the person that is converted rats the vampire team out.

That'd be gamethrowing though.

Yea that's the problem. Some random guy you just converted could easily just ruin the entire game for the vampire team. Maybe the newly convert will be the youngest one and can't vote to kill, the other vampires won't appear as the teamates until 2 days after the infection? Also the other vampires will vote for them? Could use a bit of tweaking but I honestly don't want some random guy destroying my vampire infection by gamethrowing.

[shapesifter13]

Here is an Update from Co-founder Achilles(Josh)



Summary of thread(located here: http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31178) and my current thoughts

Vampire Hunter -

I see a few common complaints
1) We don't want a role designed to counter another role

My thoughts:
BodyGuard/Doctor are designed to counter killing roles, Framer is designed to counter investigative roles such as the Sheriff/Investigator. Sheriff counters SK. Why is a VH so different? Every role fills a certain niche. No role is really designed to be useful in all scenarios. Turning the VH into a Vigilante (which is also Town Killing) gives the VH a lot of value to the Town in all scenarios.

2) Make VH a Neutral Benign role that turns into a Survivor after all Vampires have been dealt with.

My thoughts:
I think the concept of having a Town aligned VH turning into a Vigilante is pretty similar here. The differences being that as Survivor you have more available win conditions but what most people would consider to be a less fun role than the Vigilante. Also I don't think VH really fits the concept of NB.

Vampire -

Probably the biggest concern is how does this effect game play in a common role list with 3 mafia, 1 NK, 1 NE. Games would likely be drastically different for everyone when the NE rolls Vampire instead of Exe or Witch.

My thoughts:
We can fix this in a couple of ways.
1) Have a way to turn Vampires off for some game modes.
2) Make Vampires have their own classification. Someone suggested Neutral Chaos which I thought was pretty interesting. Of course Vampire would be the only thing in the Neutral Chaos category for now, but we could add more chaotic roles to it in the future.

If Vampire roles in the Any slot or the Random Neutral slot I think it doesn't really matter much. If you put an Any on the role list you are saying that you are okay with the chance of having 4 Mafia, or 2 Neutral Killing roles. Having it role Vampire instead wouldn't really be too different. Same for the Random Neutral slot. Having a Vampire instead of 2 NK isn't a drastic difference in game play.

Summary
Vampire Hunter may not be your cup of tea but that is the nature of the game. Some people like certain roles and some people do not. That is why we have scrolls. The game will not allow a VH without the existence of Vampires. You then get to go around hunting the Vamps until you get them all and then turn into a Vigilante so you still have some value to the Town and get to continue doing your Town Killing thing. I think it is a pretty decent role design.

If Vampire is Neutral Chaos it fixes the issues of having a balanced role list turn into an unbalanced one. There is of course an Any in ranked which brings up the question of what do we want to do with that. I think the same point remains valid. Is having a Vampire instead of 4 Mafia or 2 NKs really that different of a challenge for Town to tackle? Interested to hear what people think.

-Achilles

[VeilStrider]

How come Mafioso immune against Vampire? He's also human.

[shapesifter13]

Mafia, not Mafioso, and that is to prevent mafia from being turned, then ratting all the mafia out because they are Vamp now.

[VeilStrider]

I can understand the ratting out reason, but this Vampire role makes it harder for Townies. Townies can hang Vampire Hunter accidentally as always.

[Cuddles]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von zeroxxx:

I can understand the ratting out reason, but this Vampire role makes it harder for Townies. Townies can hang Vampire Hunter accidentally as always.

I don't really stand behind that 'selling-out' counter argument because if the Vampire turns the Investigator, Sheriff, Jailor or Mayor then those are people who would know the roles of other important Townies too and what's to stop them from ratting? Therefore that argument wouldn't hold much water as a converted Investigator and his will gimps the Town even further while the mafia gets a pass. I think the Vampires should be able to convert the Non-killing mafia roles (Consort, Framer, Consigliere, etc.) It should be up to the Vampires then if they want to throw the Mafia under the bus now or let them kill off more Townies before voting them off.

Another thing is, the Vampire isn't a NK so in ranked you'll have 3 mafia, 1 NK:- SK / WW / Arso and NE / NC:- Vampire. Town is definitely getting the short end of the stick there. if the Any role is another NK then that NK can still kill Mafia, Vampires can't, so it's still stacked against the Town in that there are 2 groups of players trying to kill off as many Townies as quickly as possible instead of the Neutral group trying to kill both mafia and Town. Unless Vampires put in their death note 'Tried to bite X but he was Immune'.

Sure the Vampires have to kill Mafia to win but the best strategy really would be to convert as many Townies as possible then out-vote the mafia because they can't out-right kill them like the Neutral Killings can.

A hypothetical scenario would be if there are 3 mafia, the NK SK, the NE Vampire and the Any is SK that's 4 people dead in one night instead of the usual 2 or 3. (I said hypothetically, and not taking Night Immunity, Doctors or role blocks into consideration).

I like the Neutral Chaos idea though.

I have a question. You said:-

Vampire Hunters will visit players at night and if that player is a Vampire the Vampire Hunter will stake them in the heart, killing them.
If a Vampire tries to bite a Vampire Hunter at night, the Vampire Hunter will stake them in the heart.

But if the Vampire Hunter visits a player that a Vampire is visiting does that player still turn or does the Vampire Hunter kill the Vampire as a Bodyguard would?

[terve886]

What if the Vampires would be liked to each other so, that if you kill the very first Vampire, it will kill all the other Vampires, and if you kill 2nd Vampire, it will kill all Vampires turned after the 2nd Vampire and so on.

In some Vampire movies there is always the "main Vampire" and all other Vampires that the "main Vampire" had turned will die when the Vampire that started it all dies.

[DOFR]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von terve886:

What if the Vampires would be liked to each other so, that if you kill the very first Vampire, it will kill all the other Vampires, and if you kill 2nd Vampire, it will kill all Vampires turned after the 2nd Vampire and so on.

In some Vampire movies there is always the "main Vampire" and all other Vampires that the "main Vampire" had turned will die when the Vampire that started it all dies.

Main vampire idea sounds nice, but the 2nd one causing the death of 3rd one seems like an overthinking. Main vampite should always be the one choosing the target and his death should lead to the death of all vampires.

Not sure if that idea is any good though xD

[VeilStrider]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cuddles:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von zeroxxx:

I can understand the ratting out reason, but this Vampire role makes it harder for Townies. Townies can hang Vampire Hunter accidentally as always.

I don't really stand behind that 'selling-out' counter argument because if the Vampire turns the Investigator, Sheriff, Jailor or Mayor then those are people who would know the roles of other important Townies too and what's to stop them from ratting? Therefore that argument wouldn't hold much water as a converted Investigator and his will gimps the Town even further while the mafia gets a pass. I think the Vampires should be able to convert the Non-killing mafia roles (Consort, Framer, Consigliere, etc.) It should be up to the Vampires then if they want to throw the Mafia under the bus now or let them kill off more Townies before voting them off.

Another thing is, the Vampire isn't a NK so in ranked you'll have 3 mafia, 1 NK:- SK / WW / Arso and NE / NC:- Vampire. Town is definitely getting the short end of the stick there. if the Any role is another NK then that NK can still kill Mafia, Vampires can't, so it's still stacked against the Town in that there are 2 groups of players trying to kill off as many Townies as quickly as possible instead of the Neutral group trying to kill both mafia and Town. Unless Vampires put in their death note 'Tried to bite X but he was Immune'.

Sure the Vampires have to kill Mafia to win but the best strategy really would be to convert as many Townies as possible then out-vote the mafia because they can't out-right kill them like the Neutral Killings can.

A hypothetical scenario would be if there are 3 mafia, the NK SK, the NE Vampire and the Any is SK that's 4 people dead in one night instead of the usual 2 or 3. (I said hypothetically, and not taking Night Immunity, Doctors or role blocks into consideration).

I like the Neutral Chaos idea though.

I have a question. You said:-

Vampire Hunters will visit players at night and if that player is a Vampire the Vampire Hunter will stake them in the heart, killing them.
If a Vampire tries to bite a Vampire Hunter at night, the Vampire Hunter will stake them in the heart.

But if the Vampire Hunter visits a player that a Vampire is visiting does that player still turn or does the Vampire Hunter kill the Vampire as a Bodyguard would?

Agreed. Either way, Townies are at disadvantage.

please reconsider this new Vampire role, developer.

[Chief Beef]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von shapesifter13:

There are still some things to be considered, such as if it should be unique or other factors. We are hoping to get a few details ironed out, then get it on the PTR for play testing, and take it from there.

hey i haz an idea for the role. I was think of an oracle. Nuetrel Benign. In tos we have a lack of Benign role. How to works is on night 1, or 2. The Oracle will make a prediction. Either the MAfia, Town, Arso, or Sk Will win. After the prediction is made. The Oracle will know who the person they predicted are. They can also have the power to take a bullet for there predicted role. In the sense of dieing instead of there target. Oracles can still win even if they are dead.


Just an idea though!

[Kazakh V3]

I can't wait

[Loyaltyfree]

#townisscrewed

just sayin...

[shapesifter13]

There is actually a lot of things that can mess the Vampires up. The idea that Town will be screwed before it is tested might be a little premature. If you think this ruins the chance for Town to win you should specify the game mode in which it ruins it, and why you think it ruins their chance to win.