Is ADOM unfair?

[Turbo]

I heard that ADOM had a lot of RNG that it is unfair. Is that true? Will knowledge or know-how help to alleviate it?

[Majora]

I think ADOM is very fair, with the right game knowledge you can win this game infinite amount of times in a row. (and make game very easy)

ADOM is extremely rewarding to people who put in time to learn the tricks, quests, secrets, techniques, item locations, strategies etc. Every time you play I garuntee you will learn something new, and next character play better.

Improving your game knowledge in ADOM gives you huge advantages. For example an artifact weapon you can find every game that is extremely powerful and reliable, or a garunteed book that every time you read can (randomly) give you huge powerups., There are countless more different ways to gain big advantages.



Stop by adom wiki, and the roguelikes discord have a ton of resources and strategies that will help you win the game. Plenty of people that can help you learn the game as well.

[LordBlade]

The game's not unfair. Most Roguelikes generally aren't. It's a matter of learning the mechanics and figuring out the tricks and tactics to get you past certain situations. Not to mention knowing when it's best to just run the hell away. :p

[darkshadow64540]

It's not balanced (by design) but it is very fair.

[Racocac]

Generally it is fair, but there is one exception, a place which will likely claim the first character you reach it with no matter how skilled you are: your character WILL die if you go in there unspoiled. It is: the banshee level. There is a level with a lot of corpses lying around and a special level message. It has a banshee guarding the down stairs which will kill you instantly if you get into her sight and she gets a chance to scream. The only counter to this that works reliably is to make yourself deaf, preferably with a lump of beewax. There are other monsters which will likely kill an unspoiled character the first time they are encountered, but you can say the player is at least partially to blame for those, or if not, then at least they aren't guaranteed.

[TheCreator]

Additionally I'd like to point to the new "standard mode" starting with ADOM 2.3.6 (in contract to the classic roguelike mode) which is a lot fairer to new players. Still very challenging but the beginning is much smoother.

[Turbo]

Originally posted by TheCreator:

Additionally I'd like to point to the new "standard mode" starting with ADOM 2.3.6 (in contract to the classic roguelike mode) which is a lot fairer to new players. Still very challenging but the beginning is much smoother.

oooh, Dev response... Always like those. Another question: How's the RNG in the game? I heard that it's very high (like a 10 on a scale from 1-10)

[Citronvand]

Originally posted by CMIT CEE:

Originally posted by TheCreator:

Additionally I'd like to point to the new "standard mode" starting with ADOM 2.3.6 (in contract to the classic roguelike mode) which is a lot fairer to new players. Still very challenging but the beginning is much smoother.

oooh, Dev response... Always like those. Another question: How's the RNG in the game? I heard that it's very high (like a 10 on a scale from 1-10)

I don't think the RNG is any better or worse than any other Roguelikes I've played. And when I say Roguelikes, I mean roguelikes, NOT Rogue Legacy, FTL, Spelunky, Immortal Redneck e.t.c.

About the game being fair or not, hmm, a few mechanics comes to mind. Overall I would say it is fair, but there are some things that makes no sense unless you argue for the sake of game balance, then again, the classes/races are not balanced so...

In real life, take an average woman and a man, put them in the gym, check back 6 months later, who will be the strongest? The man, right, because he has a higher starting strength and strength potential, not rocket science exactly.

Now, in ADOM, take a human and a troll, put both in a burdened state to simulate lifting in a gym. The thing is, you can only reach 15 strength by being burdened REGARDLESS of your potential. So it doesn't matter the troll has, say, 40 strength potential, he will only reach 15 by being burdened and he probably started with higher initial strength so it is completely useless for the troll.

Instead of having arbitrary numbers, that in my opinion makes no sense, I think the "training" should depend on current attribute versus potential. The bigger difference there is between the attribute and potential, the easier it should be to increase said attribute. Likewise, the closer you become to the potential, the harder it should be to increase it.


Another thing that could be considered unfair, is that speed affects experience gain. So if you have 100 speed, you cast slow on the enemy and his speed is 50, you only get 50% of the experience. Likewise, if you are slow you gain more xp. This feels like a very gamey mechanic that makes no sense and is hidden, it is not clear that speed affects xp unless you read it somewhere. Meanwhile, the energy cost is not part of the equation so you can have a low energy cost (duelist) and not recieve a xp penalty even though you effectively attack as fast as someone with a higher speed.

[Jarinex]

I don’t think it’s biased either in your favor or not your favor. If you get lucky, good for you! But if you get unlucky then that’s life.

That being said having knowledge of how the game works will keep you alive for the most part, but sometimes you just get unlucky (or lucky, lol).

[Captain Blud]

Originally posted by Jarinex:

I don’t think it’s biased either in your favor or not your favor. If you get lucky, good for you! But if you get unlucky then that’s life.

That being said having knowledge of how the game works will keep you alive for the most part, but sometimes you just get unlucky (or lucky, lol).

I have to respectfully disagree. While I'll admit sometimes there is high RNG and sometimes things are more static, I would NEVER say it's not biased against you, lol. Especially when starting out. The world is harsh and deadlier, the creatures even more so. This world is deadly and odds are RNG mechanics are gonna be against you. It may not seem like that to long time players, but that's because you know what to expect, when and why and how to prepare for it. Someone just starting without doing *Extensive* research before and during their play is stil gonna die, and a lot of times because of an RNG spawned monster or trap, etc. That said, this is still my favorite roguelike.. or at least in my top three.

If you're on the fence about buying it, well get off the fence. If you have any interest in RL Rpgs, this is a must for your library. And it's only getting better. Can't believe how beautiful the sprites are. At one point I couldn't imagine ever playing without ASCII, but they won me over.

[TheCreator]

Regarding fairness: As I stated elsewhere it IMHO depends on the difficulty level.

Starting with ADOM 2.3.6 you can play in standard or hardcore (rogulike) mode. The new standard mode reduces the effects of hunger (which is a prime cause of death for many new players) and also slightly fudges die rolls in your favor. While this does not unbalance the game it helps you to learn more faster and get further into the game.


Once you feel comfortable in standard mode I recommend changing to hardcore (roguelike) mode as that it the way ADOM was meant to be played. In that mode it is much less forgiving, the world is much harsher and you need to be on your toes all the time.

In summary I would say ADOM by now (2.3.6) offers various styles of play and additionally you have extensive customization options.

[Anxarcule]

Originally posted by BludStanes:

If you're on the fence about buying it, well get off the fence. If you have any interest in RL Rpgs, this is a must for your library. And it's only getting better. Can't believe how beautiful the sprites are. At one point I couldn't imagine ever playing without ASCII, but they won me over.

I might go about trying sprites after reading this. My first ever RL was Ragnarok/Valhalla back when I was 10 or so and that also had a graphical UI with an ASCII map up top. With ADOM I fell in love with the ASCII design and adjusting to graphical tiles when they were released felt impossible to me, despite the fact that I LOVED the artwork.

When I turned on sprites before though I thought I noticed a slight slowdown in response time to my actions, seemingly for animations. Is that normal?

[Captain Blud]

Originally posted by TheCreator:

Regarding fairness: As I stated elsewhere it IMHO depends on the difficulty level.

Starting with ADOM 2.3.6 you can play in standard or hardcore (rogulike) mode. The new standard mode reduces the effects of hunger (which is a prime cause of death for many new players) and also slightly fudges die rolls in your favor. While this does not unbalance the game it helps you to learn more faster and get further into the game.


Once you feel comfortable in standard mode I recommend changing to hardcore (roguelike) mode as that it the way ADOM was meant to be played. In that mode it is much less forgiving, the world is much harsher and you need to be on your toes all the time.

In summary I would say ADOM by now (2.3.6) offers various styles of play and additionally you have extensive customization options.

I'll admit, I never beat this game. Never even got very far. A big part of that is cuz I refuse to look up walkthroughs, so I just stumble around. Inevitably I die, but I start again. And I have no problem with this. If I wanna see a win so bad, I'll watch someone stream it. *BUT* this is a huge negative for me..... the fact that it 'fudges' the die roll in your favor on easier difficulties. Haven't tried any yet, haven't played this game at all really on Steam, but I don't like loaded dice. FEels wayyyy too much like a cheat, and makes me feel slimy playing whatever mode that's in.

[Captain Blud]

Originally posted by Anxarcule:

Originally posted by BludStanes:

If you're on the fence about buying it, well get off the fence. If you have any interest in RL Rpgs, this is a must for your library. And it's only getting better. Can't believe how beautiful the sprites are. At one point I couldn't imagine ever playing without ASCII, but they won me over.

I might go about trying sprites after reading this. My first ever RL was Ragnarok/Valhalla back when I was 10 or so and that also had a graphical UI with an ASCII map up top. With ADOM I fell in love with the ASCII design and adjusting to graphical tiles when they were released felt impossible to me, despite the fact that I LOVED the artwork.

When I turned on sprites before though I thought I noticed a slight slowdown in response time to my actions, seemingly for animations. Is that normal?

You haven't even tried sprites yet? Gawrsh.... they are really something in here. I think my first was Nethack. I was like 8 or 9 and I was like wtf is this? Can I HACK THE INTERNET? Then I realized it's a game, and I died non stop but fell in love with roguelikes. ALthough overall.... I'm really not very good at them, thinking about it now, lol.

[Gluecost]

Originally posted by BludStanes:

You haven't even tried sprites yet? Gawrsh.... they are really something in here. I think my first was Nethack. I was like 8 or 9 and I was like wtf is this? Can I HACK THE INTERNET? Then I realized it's a game, and I died non stop but fell in love with roguelikes. ALthough overall.... I'm really not very good at them, thinking about it now, lol.

Its all about the experience and journey that matter :D
I grew up on Angband when i was 7, never quite understood at that age it but loved it all the same.

Thirst for adventure and RPGs i don't think is something you can grow out of (at least in my case)

[morphles]

Dunno I uses to play adom quite a bit like 5-7 years ago, played quite a bit but probably farthest I got was like character level 16 and dwarven halls. Though I read essentially all guidebook. Now I'm trying some things and game seems way more annoying. Trapped doors are annoying as hell. And in general dunno fair or not, ADOM now seems kinda "grindy". I still kinda like it (though certain bugs interface shortcommings are nnoying me as hell now, written in other post). Again, traps are annoying, get heir gift, blam exploding door trap destroys it... ffs 3 talents down the drain, can restart char, and with talent selection bugs...