On the Ending (Spoilers) (Critical Analysis)

[bra1n1ac]

First off, I want to say that there is an awful lot about this game that I love, and that's rare, considering how recently it was released. In particular, I love the character of Anna, and I think she's one of the most likable characters in fiction, if a bit naive from time to time. Certainly, she's high up there when it comes to adventure game protagonists.

However, I really have to say a thing or two about the ending, because honestly, I think it's a shame, and this is for two main reasons. (Don't worry. I'll tag things that may be spoilers)

First, the final level with Winfriede really seemed disconnected from the rest of the game. All we really know about her is that she's wicked and selfish, and even as a child, she never really does anything to endear herself to the gamer. By contrast, Anna has been a wonderful companion throughout this entire game.

That's what's really sad, and this is the other problem I had with this ending. It's so brief. Just a few pictures, and that's it. The end. Anna has been through, and overcome so much, that I really wanted to see more of the ending of her story, and maybe even a final discussion between her and her grandfather, about her growth as a character, and the reasons behind his fears; perhaps even find out how their relationship will change, now that the adventure is over, and so many respect her. The final level even made me curious about how Anna's actions would change the public perception of individuals with special powers, from the way it was during her own adventure.

I guess what I'm saying is; they didn't need to end it that way. This should have been Anna's triumph.

Actually, come to think of it, a lot would have been fixed if they'd had a scene of her Grandfather giving her a talk at the end, similar to the one Alfred gave to Bruce Wayne at the end of "Mask of the Phantasm." ("She fell into that pit years ago, and no one, not even you, could have pulled her back out again.")

Have you gotten to the ending? What are your thoughts? Do you agree with me on this? Do you think, by contrast, that they put the focus where it was most needed?

[Al Dhi]

Spoilers ahead!

All I know is that since Daedalic released their first adventure game in 2008 there's always been controversy about their endings. They are often brief, unexpected and quiet dark thus revealing greater conflicts that had been hidden between the lines. In fact I don't remember a single release without some kind of "I think it should have ended this way" discussion.
I've personally always liked these endings and Anna's Quest is no exception. Winfriede is at a point where she cannot help herself anymore and Anna can only do so much. She can offer forgiveness and love but in the end it's Winfriede's decision to accept it, to show remorse or to fall. And sometimes "the devil" simply has his way. For now, that's the moral of this story. And that's how it works in real life too.

While it could perhaps be interesting to learn about the public perception of people with special powers and other things that you mentioned, this is all not part of the core story / the main conflict anymore. I'm a proponent of brief and straight-to-the-core storytelling anyway but even more so when it comes to endings.

Could a happy ending have worked as well? There would have certainly been a danger of Anna's Quest becoming a typical "good always wins" story. Instead it seems to tell us that good and evil are in an ongoing fight and that people will fall and succeed on both sides. And Anna did achieve a lot.
It's pretty thought-provoking, don't you think?

[bra1n1ac]

Originally posted by Al Dhi:

Spoilers ahead!

All I know is that since Daedalic released their first adventure game in 2008 there's always been controversy about their endings. They are often brief, unexpected and quiet dark thus revealing greater conflicts that had been hidden between the lines. In fact I don't remember a single release without some kind of "I think it should have ended this way" discussion.
I've personally always liked these endings and Anna's Quest is no exception. Winfriede is at a point where she cannot help herself anymore and Anna can only do so much. She can offer forgiveness and love but in the end it's Winfriede's decision to accept it, to show remorse or to fall. And sometimes "the devil" simply has his way. For now, that's the moral of this story. And that's how it works in real life too.

While it could perhaps be interesting to learn about the public perception of people with special powers and other things that you mentioned, this is all not part of the core story / the main conflict anymore. I'm a proponent of brief and straight-to-the-core storytelling anyway but even more so when it comes to endings.

Could a happy ending have worked as well? There would have certainly been a danger of Anna's Quest becoming a typical "good always wins" story. Instead it seems to tell us that good and evil are in an ongoing fight and that people will fall and succeed on both sides. And Anna did achieve a lot.
It's pretty thought-provoking, don't you think?

That wasn't my problem with it. I agree; I wouldn't have changed what happened to Winfriede at the end either. My problem with it was that they suddenly shifted focus onto her, and never really got back to Anna's part of the story for any length of time. You can tell a story that contains a tragedy of this nature, and still see it through the eyes of an overall optimist, or even end it on a positive note. Romeo & Juliet did it, so why not a video game?

I wasn't aware that this was a common thread in Daedalic games, since this is the first of their number that I've ever given a try. I don't like most modern video games, for some of the reasons that you said you did like the ending.

[Doggy Davis]

Originally posted by Al Dhi:

Spoilers ahead!

All I know is that since Daedalic released their first adventure game in 2008 there's always been controversy about their endings. They are often brief, unexpected and quiet dark thus revealing greater conflicts that had been hidden between the lines. In fact I don't remember a single release without some kind of "I think it should have ended this way" discussion.
I've personally always liked these endings and Anna's Quest is no exception. Winfriede is at a point where she cannot help herself anymore and Anna can only do so much. She can offer forgiveness and love but in the end it's Winfriede's decision to accept it, to show remorse or to fall. And sometimes "the devil" simply has his way. For now, that's the moral of this story. And that's how it works in real life too.

While it could perhaps be interesting to learn about the public perception of people with special powers and other things that you mentioned, this is all not part of the core story / the main conflict anymore. I'm a proponent of brief and straight-to-the-core storytelling anyway but even more so when it comes to endings.

Could a happy ending have worked as well? There would have certainly been a danger of Anna's Quest becoming a typical "good always wins" story. Instead it seems to tell us that good and evil are in an ongoing fight and that people will fall and succeed on both sides. And Anna did achieve a lot.
It's pretty thought-provoking, don't you think?

That's always been my main problem with daedalic games, really. I'm fine with grim or sad endings as long as they feel natural to the story, but a lot of endings to their games just seem kind of phoned-in, for lack of a better term.

[ghost_zero5]

Regarding trusting / innocent Anna. Well, that was to be expected after all she had been living on a farm with only her grandfather so far, so basically she didn't know anyone else and actually she isn't so trusting at the end anymore, even if she still tries to see the good in people which is not necessary a bad thing.

Regarding the ending: I think it is quite OK regarding what happened to Winfriede.

I mean her being able to be forgiving at that point would have been a bit strange, after everything she has been through.

However, Winfirede's family is another matter entirely. I mean the took a word from basically a "stranger" over hers.
True she might not have been the easist child but there was no reason for them to think she would put a friend at risk or even worse kill a friend at that point.
Especially, she was rather young and instead of helping her through the loss of her friend the threw her out.
Honestly...

[Xee]

You know what, I have an issue with the ending as well, and it is not any of yours. Why the balls did Winfirede have to die!?

Hear me out, I'm not against sad endings, not at all. Even if those who think they are better and more adult are on the same level as those who think fairy-tales are for children. But this one, made no sense.

The thing is, The entire wizard conversation is bull now. This whole, you need to find the queen or you'll have to kill Winfirede sub plot, is pointless. That sub plot that was the only reason we cared about finding the queen, recall? We got out of Hell on the idea that Anna was going to save and forgive Winfirede, Hans went to heaven because he thought we were going to save Winfirede. And in the end she dies a horrible useless bitter crone anyways? The balls was the point of that? The entire Minerva speech was to current Winfirede, and none of this pans out? Never mind that she never killed Hans, and the one that set her fate was apparently SATAN. I, I have no words. That last chapter endeared me to Winfirede, she was in love with Hans, and his science, SHE KEPT HIS SCIENCE AWARD TO THE END PEOPLE. She was interested in science because of him. The fact that she just dies anyway, no redemption, I just, I just can't.

[piccolomaniac]

The last chapter was my favorite, actually -- I just thought it was too short, if anything. It had the best-written script out of all the chapters, and I loved seeing the dynamics among the various characters…also, Flashback Winfriede had one of the best voice actors in the entire game. I actually enjoyed seeing her interact with the other characters (unlike Anna, who spoke annoyingly slowly -- I left-clicked through most of her dialogue, just skimming the subtitles). I found her extremely sympathetic as a character, too. Being constantly compared to her "perfect" sister, she develops a mostly-harmless rebellious streak, and it's pretty endearing. Then she gets disproportionately and irrevocably punished for an accident. I mean, it's natural that she feels guilty about it, but others blaming her for it is totally unjustified. (I felt like shouting "I MEANT TO GO MYSELF!" at my computer screen.) She unwittingly brought death and/or destruction, but unlike Anna in the dungeon, she doesn't get to protest, or prove her innocence. Not until Anna sees it in her memory decades later. If only someone had bothered to listen to her side of the story, rather than automatically assuming the worst because she's "the bad child", a whole lot of heartache for a whole lot of people could have been avoided.

Augh…just…such feels! This is like "Diamonds and Toads" but up to eleven.

But yeah, not even to have a conversation between Anna and her grandfather at the end…that seemed odd. I was expecting Chapter 6 to be the second-to-last chapter or something, so "The End" surprised me. "Welp, she's dead now, so problem solved!" just doesn't really fit. (Wasn't there something in an earlier part about having to convince Winfriede to take away the curse?)

[bra1n1ac]

Originally posted by Nobody:

The thing is, The entire wizard conversation is bull now.

Yes. That's another problem. A fair portion of Anna's journey has just been rendered pointless. As I said, this should have been the moment for Anna to triumph over the odds. This could have been done, in spite of the witch's death, but I do agree that it could be done much more easily (and convincingly) without it.

Originally posted by piccolomaniac:

I found her extremely sympathetic as a character, too. Being constantly compared to her "perfect" sister, she develops a mostly-harmless rebellious streak, and it's pretty endearing.

Suit yourself. I've never found jealousy or rebelliousness sympathetic in any character. Really, the only rebellious characters I like are the ones who are specifically trying to do right by doing so, a-la Star Wars.

[fusslon]

Originally posted by bra1n1ac:

Originally posted by Al Dhi:

Spoilers ahead!

My problem with it was that they suddenly shifted focus onto her, and never really got back to Anna's part of the story for any length of time.

I totally agree with you. That was the really bad part of the ending. All the other things, okay, debatable. But this seemed like a flaw in story-telling to me. The ending with just very short and selective animated scenes and then images and a narrator when you were still in an emotional conflict about what happened to Winfriede just did not match the feeling of the rest of the game, I daresay, and told us Anna's next steps too quickly to really "get back" to her again after what we had just experienced.
I wish they'd redo the ending (not what happened, but how they showed it).

Now to what happened, now here come the heavy spoilers, so don't read on if you haven't finished the game yet...

Originally posted by piccolomaniac:

I found her extremely sympathetic as a character, too.

I'm pretty used to Daedalic's endings by now, since I've played most of their adventures by now from Edna onwards. The moment the game suggested the possibility of saving Winfriede (or Winfriede redeeming herself somehow), I cringed because I knew that probably that won't happen in a Daedalic game. When she rejected Anna's hand, it was still terribly sad, though. I totally sympathized with her, too, in that great flashback chapter. The way she stuck to Hans and adored him and believed in him even though the others seemed to treat him like an outcast (although we never really saw that...) showed that she had a good heart. And as to her rebelliousness and bad traits, like laziness, well, she was just a child, and I refuse to judge a child as already too bad to be saved. Full blame on the mother. And for heaven's sake, why didn't Jorinde show some reaction to tell that Winnie had not committed murder? I really liked Jorinde but I'm not so sure now after that end. But I guess she's just a very traumatized child. But there's a bit more to her reaction; I'll talk about that in the next paragraph.

Actually, the "Sorceress" became one of my favorite characters the first time I saw her at the Mage's shop at Wunderhorn. I suspected that she was not to be trusted, though, although at that time I did not think that she would turn out to be Winfriede, because I had expected a different reaction from Winfriede when seeing Anna there after her escape. Well, she must have changed plans very quickly. I really liked the voice of the voice actor and the looks of the sorceress. That was one of the reasons why I began seeing Winfriede in a different light even before the flashback chapter, and got really excited when that chapter came. She was all I hoped her to be as a child, and even more likeable.

Now to some points I discovered by replaying some parts of the game again (it's always good to keep savegames at different stages of the game so you can get back to later on, lol).

I went back to the church and had another look at the "Sad Painting" and re-asked the cleric about it. After the ending, we now know that it portrayed Winfriede being expelled by her mother as a child. The cleric also told us that it was painted by a mute girl, which must have been Jorinde, being the only mute one to witness that scene. So this, at least, was some reaction from Jorinde. She portrayed Winfriede as very sad and frightened, and her mother as ignorant, which was a) a criticism on the reaction of Dorothea and b) probably a hint that nobody got about Dorothea being ignorant to something important about Winnie. Wonder if no one ever asked Jorinde directly about the painting?
What do you think, how did the portray end up in the church? Why was it considered so important although the story behind it seemed to have been forgotten? How clear was it to the people that it showed this certain event? Just another totally forgotten background story to a nice church painting that was somehow connected to Wunderhorn's (and the Royal Family's) history?

Another thought, how many years do you think have passed since the day of Hans' death? We are told that Yannicke was given the gift of keeping her beauty despite ageing while Winnie was cursed, and Joringel tells Anna that she should be the same age as him but something happened, maybe a spell gone awry. But we still don't know how much time has passed since Jorinde and Joringel became ghosts. And on her look as the "sorceress" and in the Castle up to the wedding - was this how she once had looked, or how she guessed she would have looked (this question is, of course, related to the question about how much time has actually passed)?

I also replayed the scene when Anna first meets Hans and their conversation. It was discussed before that Hans' ascent to Heaven and his feeling he had helped "his friend" seemed to point to a different ending for Windfriede. I don't know about that. He died trying (and failing) to get the Amber Orb for Winfriede, but by giving Anna the decisive clue on how to soothe the Weisse Frauen and her receiving the Orb, well, Winfriede finally DID get the Orb. Hans would probably still think that good would come out of this for Winfriede.

Except for the issue with the out-of-place storytelling at the end, I can come to terms with the end, although I really would have wished for Winfriede to redeem herself. But I guess her salvation was all in finally having everyone know that they had done her wrong as a child. That is, at least, acceptable to me. She could not forgive, but she died knowing that the others saw their tragic mistake. This was at least some kind of redemption, IMO. And even now, after all those beautiful and exciting hours of playing Anna and liking her a lot despite her naivety, Anna is still totally drowned out by the even better character and history of Young Winfriede for me.

I hope you all watched the bonus dialogue after the credits. Do I see a hint there of a possible sequel? (twink)

I'd gladly read more opinions on all of this.

[bra1n1ac]

Wow! What a comment! I wish I could read replies like this every day! I'd learn so much!

You really knocked my socks off; especially when it comes to the Winfriede character. I think we agree on a lot, but also, I think I understand a lot more about why we disagree on certain things.

Originally posted by fusslon:

I totally sympathized with her, too, in that great flashback chapter. The way she stuck to Hans and adored him and believed in him even though the others seemed to treat him like an outcast (although we never really saw that...) showed that she had a good heart.

This really opens my eyes about how others see the child Winfriede character. I honestly never noticed this about her, because I was interpreting her actions purely in terms of the selfishness that we've seen from her throughout the game. As you say, we never really saw Hans being all that persecuted by the others. He was just sort of different from them, and as I saw it, Winfriede saw potential in him that she could use, and being the manipulative sort she is, she put just enough effort into being kind and supportive, to keep him from realizing what she was really after. I never once thought that her relationship with him was genuine. Then again, maybe that's just how I read her character. I honestly don't know how she was intended to come across. It's just that when someone has a track record of being lying, manipulative and nasty, you tend to expect it from them, as I did here.

All that having been said, if her relationship with Hans really WAS a genuine friendship, then I can totally understand why people would find that sympathetic. It is, after all, a sign that one is capable of caring about others. In a way, I almost hope I'm wrong in my interpretation.

Originally posted by fusslon:

And as to her rebelliousness and bad traits, like laziness, well, she was just a child, and I refuse to judge a child as already too bad to be saved.

No one is. It depends on what they choose to do. I'm not going to claim that she was a hopeless case, even as a child. It's just that I don't find those traits endearing, and I didn't much care for anything else she did as a child either. It always seemed like she had ulterior motive for everything.

Originally posted by fusslon:

And even now, after all those beautiful and exciting hours of playing Anna and liking her a lot despite her naivety, Anna is still totally drowned out by the even better character and history of Young Winfriede for me.

It was certainly interesting finding out her history. I just don't think it should have been the last substantial part of the game.

Also, even if your interpretation of the Winfriede character is right, I still think Anna is a better character. Then again, a list of some of my favorite characters should explain why.

Silver Age Captain Marvel (DC.)
Sir Galahad
Mothra
Son Goku
Captain America
Link
Blossom
Alice (a-la Wonderland)

So basically, I generally like characters more when they're either over-the-top good, or trying hard to be so. It's what drew me to this game in the first place. Anna is very special.

[fusslon]

It's really great to exchange thoughts here, because I would not have interpreted Young Winfriede as treating Hans like this because she is manipulative and intends to use her for her purposes as a child already. But I see that this interpretation makes sense, too. It would also explain why her mother seemed so ready to believe that she actually did something as bad as murdering Hans for her purposes. Maybe she saw what you saw and that she was already a dangerous, manipulative girl. These two interpretations of her even add to the game, I'd say, because even though we witnessed a small but crucial part of Winfriede's life as a child, we still cannot judge with certainty whether she was already bad before and her way was bound to end like it ended, or whether the actual turning point only came when people thought her capable of such evil. With my interpretation, I'd blame the mother for treating and judiging (MISjudging) her child like this, but with your interpretation, maybe the mother has already seen too much bad in Winfriede and knows her behavior towards Hans to be like that. Or at least fears it is like this and thus so readily believes she was capable of killing him.

And I totally agree that Anna is a great character, even though I usually sympathize more with characters that have both good and bad traits and are hard to see through. But I still like the really good ones, especially those who don't brag about being good and are just genuinely naive about goodness, not projecting their morals on others and thus immediately looking down on everyone who fails. In real life, those are actually the more (and really) likeable characters for me. It's just that in fiction, I prefer those who fail, and particularly those who we see fail in the first place and for whom we may still see some hope, however little that hope may be. I love to see the tragedy in their failure, even though I often cringe at what they do later on That's why I can still accept the end of Winfriede. After seeing what she did to Jorinde and Joringel in particular, it would be really hard to forgive her. So we kind of had an explanation for the path she chose, but not really an excuse. It adds to Anna's, as you put it, "over-the-top goodness" that she still reached out her hand for her. I like her even the more for it, and it's great that the solution still was that she did not have to kill Winfriede herself, because that certainly would have left a dark trace in her soul. I would not wish her such a fate. This way, it was Winfriede's choice that killed Winfriede. Sad, but logical and therefore acceptable to me, although in my heart I still wish she could have been saved and forgiven to the extent that forgiveness was possible after what she had done.

And back to Anna: Especially with Daedalic, I was really glad and found it refreshing to finally have a character like Anna as the (playable) protagonist, because they usually have rather dubious or even downright sinister protagonist (and I sometimes find them hard to play even though I mostly like them, because even though I'm drawn to the more difficult and dark characters in fiction, as a real person, I'm a very moral person, lol).

But right, the problem with the end is that the last bigger (and active) part was about Winfriede, and this is what made it so hard for me to get back to Anna in time even though I really liked her and felt for her. I would have preferred to have at least some more actions to be played from Anna's POV, to get back to her, before "auto play" and the quick telling of the end. That's the really annoying and dissatifactory thing about the ending for me, even though I still could yell at Winfriede, "dammit, take her hand and face what you've done and be redeemed!" and feel bad for Winnie. For Anna, it was certainly a dark lesson to learn: No matter how hard you try and how nice you are, you just cannot save everyone.
And with my interpretation of Winnie still being a good, only rebellious child at heart before the turning point with being cast out by her Mother, it's really hard to see her not saved because the child she once was deserved to be redeemed, especially since many had done her wrong back then.

[bra1n1ac]

Originally posted by fusslon:

These two interpretations of her even add to the game,

I certainly agree. I think that sometimes, a really good villain can pull off this kind of ambiguous ability to be interpreted in different ways. I felt this way about Jareth from Labyrinth. Now that I see something similar in child Winnie, I'll have an easier time enjoying her part of the game.

Originally posted by fusslon:

But I still like the really good ones, especially those who don't brag about being good and are just genuinely naive about goodness, not projecting their morals on others and thus immediately looking down on everyone who fails.

Yes. Real goodness implies real justice, and real justice entails mercy. Pride is the enemy of all good conduct.

Originally posted by fusslon:

It's just that in fiction, I prefer those who fail, and particularly those who we see fail in the first place and for whom we may still see some hope, however little that hope may be.

The "Edmund Pevensie" type. Yes, I know what you mean. Though my preference is for the "Lucy" and "Peter" types, I can totally understand why people enjoy reading about flawed or weak heroes, who nonetheless, struggle to overcome their weaknesses.

Originally posted by fusslon:

It adds to Anna's, as you put it, "over-the-top goodness" that she still reached out her hand for her. I like her even the more for it, and it's great that the solution still was that she did not have to kill Winfriede herself, because that certainly would have left a dark trace in her soul. I would not wish her such a fate.

Agreed. That's just about the worst way the ending could have gone.

Originally posted by fusslon:

And back to Anna: Especially with Daedalic, I was really glad and found it refreshing to finally have a character like Anna as the (playable) protagonist, because they usually have rather dubious or even downright sinister protagonist (and I sometimes find them hard to play even though I mostly like them, because even though I'm drawn to the more difficult and dark characters in fiction, as a real person, I'm a very moral person, lol).

Yes. That was what drew me to this game to begin with; the overall uprightness of its main character, and her compassion and selflessness.

Originally posted by fusslon:

But right, the problem with the end is that the last bigger (and active) part was about Winfriede, and this is what made it so hard for me to get back to Anna in time even though I really liked her and felt for her. I would have preferred to have at least some more actions to be played from Anna's POV, to get back to her, before "auto play" and the quick telling of the end. That's the really annoying and dissatifactory thing about the ending for me, even though I still could yell at Winfriede, "dammit, take her hand and face what you've done and be redeemed!" and feel bad for Winnie. For Anna, it was certainly a dark lesson to learn: No matter how hard you try and how nice you are, you just cannot save everyone.

If they'd made that lesson, overtly, a part of Anna's development, I would have been more okay with it, but she just didn't have long enough to learn anything or develop any more after the tragic turn that the ending took. No matter what the ending was trying to get across, I just didn't feel that it was handled well enough, or for a long enough time.

Originally posted by fusslon:

And with my interpretation of Winnie still being a good, only rebellious child at heart before the turning point with being cast out by her Mother, it's really hard to see her not saved because the child she once was deserved to be redeemed, especially since many had done her wrong back then.

I've made this comparison before, but I feel that Winnie came across a lot like Andrea Beaumont from Mask of the Phantasm; doing evil to others out of bitterness at the world for the hurt she was caused, not all of which was her fault. I just would have liked to see the ending take its time with that point, and flesh it out a little better, and I could probably deal with that just fine.

[Smash]

First, why you guys use spoiler tag if whole Thread is marked as spoiler in OP... it makes it really annoying to read.

Second, why you guys even expected that Winnie would acknowwledge hand from Anna, knowing her charakter which was shown in backflash, it just makes thing worse.

Only one that could change it was Jannice. But she was kinda dumb and coward and selfish. Her acting was offputing and not just her.

The biggest victim here is Winnie. It is typical case of "when world hates you, you starting hates world".

Story was overall quite interesting put it was so rush in the end. It like company found that we have enough gameplay for like 2h lets close it up quiclky.
Reynard case, Devil/Wanderer case, whole ending, all of it was so unsatisfacting. I am glad i watched it on YT, so no buyer remorse.

[bra1n1ac]

Originally posted by Smash:

First, why you guys use spoiler tag if whole Thread is marked as spoiler in OP... it makes it really annoying to read.

Maybe so, but I wanted to make sure one accidental click didn't ruin things for somebody.

Originally posted by Smash:

Second, why you guys even expected that Winnie would acknowwledge hand from Anna, knowing her charakter which was shown in backflash, it just makes thing worse.

I didn't. I think it would have been pretty inconsistent with her character if she had. I just thought that really should definitely not have been the way the game ended. Give the gamer some time to get back to Anna and accept the loss at least. Don't try to make us feel sorry for the villain losing. Villains are supposed to lose.

P.S.: Sure, some part of me did wish that Winnie could have turned things around, but more for the sake of Anna's beliefs and the Wizard's predictions, rather than because I actually think she would. It seems wrong to make it seem like Anna failed, and I feel that in spite of all her successes, the ending played it up like she failed, when she didn't.

Originally posted by Smash:

Only one that could change it was Jannice. But she was kinda dumb and coward and selfish. Her acting was offputing and not just her.

The problem with Jannice, as I see it, was that even though she knew it would make matters worse to just flat-out expose Winnie, she did it anyway. She could have tried to do it Anna's way; reach out to her somehow. I'm not saying that would have worked. I don't think it would have, but it was her weakness to not even try it.

Originally posted by Smash:

The biggest victim here is Winnie. It is typical case of "when world hates you, you starting hates world".

Hatred is never justified, no matter what's been done to you. I'm going to go off on a little tangent here, so if you don't want to hear it, don't reveal the contents of the spoiler tag here, but...

...there are huge numbers of people out there who look at things in this precise way; who's the biggest victim? Who's suffered the most? Who was done the worst wrong? The whole thing is arrogant, because, being mortal, we can't really know.

However, the worst of it all is this; you cannot claim that an evil action isn't still evil, just because the person doing the evil has some kind of Freudian excuse to wave around. No, it's still evil, and Winnie never, as I said, did anything to show that there was a time when she wasn't rude, selfish and manipulative. That's why I don't think Jannice's involvement would have mattered, and that's why I don't feel so bothered by the fact that Winnie didn't turn things around at the end.

Some people are just so committed to staying in their evil, that they refuse to be helped, but as Anna seems to have realized, you can't get hung up over those people, or you'll never do anything but feel sad all day and night.

So, no. Winnie doesn't get any leeway from me, just because she's got a sob story. We've all got problems. The only real question is; how do we deal with them?

Originally posted by Smash:

Story was overall quite interesting put it was so rush in the end. It like company found that we have enough gameplay for like 2h lets close it up quiclky.

That was my big problem with the ending; yes.

[The Sinless Assassin]

I totally agree...the ending was too short. I loved getting to play and Winfriede, it was nice to empathize with her as a child, but also recognize she made poor choices. But I missed Anna during that whole chapter and wish there was more of Anna at the end, getting to talk with her grandpa and have more of a say about what she's been through. I want a part 2!

[the.codefolio.guy]

Something that bugged me: there were several things that pointed to a more interesting, nuanced ending. Somebody else pointed out that the Wanderer really looked a *lot* like The Devil - is that a coincidence, or a comment on the unfair harshness of the judgement, or a sign that their entire magic school is basically evil? Don't know, never explored. And presumably that would make it *awkward* that Phillip had banished the Devil underground by summoning the Red Dragon, but that never seems to be commented on.

And Reynard is clearly built up to be some kind of interesting, nuanced character -- what is he actually getting from this? They even hint that he must be building up to some benefit for him.

And then that's just dropped on the floor and never talked about again. Even a 'lampshade' ending -- just showing Anna thinking something like, "wait, but what about Reynard?" and then shrugging -- would be better than the build up and then *no* acknowledgement.

I came here because I found myself thinking, "oh, they built up the 'two endings' thing and I must not have figured out how to get the other one." The redemption thing was just pushed so hard, and the ending I played so clearly had lots of loose ends...