How do you like the physics of WMD?

[Snowcone Guy]

If you have watched a lot of streams and YouTube videos of W.M.D., I would like to hear your opinion on the physics.

And I do not mean the roping physics, but the general physics of how things fall, bounce and slide on the maps.


Here is my opinion:

I have mixed feelings aobut it.
It seems like they aren't as low gravity as in WA/WWP.
You can see that as a good thing, as it's more realistic,
but personally, I thought looking at the physics in WA/WWP had a very mesmerizing charm.
Watching a mine bouncing through the air, bouncing of any surface depending on the angle of the surface and it's own hitbox was like looking at a lava lamp.

But with what I have seen from W.M.D. so far, things that become airborne do less bouncing and are motionless very soon again.

The same goes for sliding, like worms sliding down a slope, speeding up or slowing down based on the surface's angle, or becoming a little bit airborne by little bumps on the way.

This looks reduced to me too in W.M.D.

In general, the physics of W.M.D. remind me a lot of those from Worms : Reloaded,
which I was no fan of.
But I don't think they are the same.
While the gravity seems as heavy as in Reloaded, making things motionless very soon again,
I think the angle in which objects and worms bounce of surfaces is calculated much more correctly, like in WA/WWP.

But I'm not 100% sure about that.

The force of wind seems totally fine to me.



What do you think?


PS: I think they should add a Low-Gravity item to the game! It would be a lot of fun and helps creating schemes like BnA (Bow and Arrow).

[Squiffel]

I've had this issue every time I have watched the Stream.
It may be the biggest problem in the game.

The worms don't bounce enough and they stop sliding way too soon. It make them less strategically malleable because the probability of them sliding down onto a lower platform or water is significantly lower.

[FoxClubNiner]

I think they did this on purpose. I think it encourages using weapons to kill each other rather than just trying to find the best way to knock a worm into the water.

I'm ok with this. One of my main criticisms of WA or WWP is I dont use hardly any of the weapons because it's just faster to kill people by knocking them into the water. In WA I mainly stick to: shotgun, dynamite, sheep, mine, dragon punch, bow. It gets boring after a while. I want all the weapons to have a use.

[Snowcone Guy]

Yeah I think I may have to agree that it was a little bit to easy to drown worms in WA/WWP, in the context that the actual weapons often rather became tools to "plop" someone than to actually kill them.

But that also depended on the maps.

For example, Shopper/Shoppa is played on indestructable maps, which only have acess to the water where the map creator intended it. And (at least on a good map) the possibility that another player could drown you was usually a punishment for not resting your worm at a save hide at the end of your turn.

Also it was a lot of fun and pretty satisfying to "plop" someone :P
The sound alone!
https://youtu.be/2idEcUigicI

In general, even though I perosnally don't prefer it if the gravity is heavier and airborne items have less "travel", I could live with that as long as I have the feeling that the items are bouncing off in the right angle in relation to the surface and their own hitbox.

You know, as long as the physics don't feel incorrect (--> cheap) like for example in Worms: A Space Oddity on Wii.

(Yes, I actually played that...)

But even if the physics of W.M.D. do deflect objects correctly, it's hard tell, as you don't see much of it because objects only fly through the air for a split second before becoming motionless again.

Often, mines that got shot in the air because of a nearby explosion came to a complete halt even before the effects of the explosion (like smoke and particles) were over.

And besides drowining worms and bouncing grenades off walls BnG style,
one of the fun things to do with the WA/WWP physics was to deal double damage in your turn. 1x damage from the weapon you just used and 1x additional damage from the nearby mine that got blown away in that explosion and landed just where you calculated it to do.

I remember when they showed off W.M.D. for the very first time,
Team 17 was talking about how they not just wanted to bring back the original ninja rope physics, but also how they wanted to try to recreate the physics of WA.

I don't see much of that right now, it looks much closer to W:R than WA. :(

[```skunk3```]

I also think that things look a bit odd in the gameplay footage, but better than recent offerings. In Reloaded, there was too much friction. Worms would barely slide at all, and as far as nade mechanics goes, all I can do is laugh. In Rev/CW I think there's too much friction at times. Worms will slide down a gentle slope as though it's covered in oil, yet other times will not slide at all. I know this all depends on worm class, but still. I think that another reason why W:A is so good is because it has just the right balance of gravity, friction, momentum, etc.

[Snowcone Guy]

Check out this interview and skip to 11:07 to hear Team17 talking about bringing the weight and feeling of WA to WMD:


https://youtu.be/T0uq8hbrlbs
(skip to 11:07)

Originally posted by Team17 :

It's simply Worms Armageddon.
There is something about Worms Armageddon that lived long in the memories for a lot of Worms fans.
It consistently is the one that we hear comes out top in the fan favorites.
And I think the reasons for that quite hard to get across.

You know if you played the game, there is a certain feeling of weight to things, there is a certain feeling of solidity and physics.
It just feels really great to play, you know?

It is a really nice version of Worms and we took a lot of cues from that - to the point I'd probably say that even though it's a whole new engine, it's massively influenced.
It takes a lot of cues from Worms Armageddon.

And that same great feeling when you play the game, that comes from playing Worms Armageddon, that's exactly what we are aiming for with W.M.D.

So, early in development, they exactly knew what we wanted the physics to be like.
Then why do they look so different? What happened?

[```skunk3```]

I think that the only way to speak conclusively on this topic is to wait until the game drops and have first-hand experience. There's a lot of things that I don't like about WMD already:

1. Lack of a splash/plop sound when worms hit the water

2. Drowning worms don't release air bubbles (I know that sounds petty but it's important to me)

3. The vehicles are all silly and overpowered. It's not so much the damage they do per se as it is their maneuverability. The Rocket League car can double jump to great heights... the tank can climb nearly vertical surfaces... the helicopter is basically a jetpack with unlimited fuel... I think that in many ways the vehicles detract from the core strategy of typical Worms gameplay.

4. A pay wall for basic weapons that should be in the game for everyone, most notably the kamikaze

5. Many legacy weapons and utilities missing that are IMO crucial for people who take Worms seriously and want to play skilled, strategic matches. (No girder packs? No lucky charms? No worship? Come on...)

6. I don't think that craftable weapons are going to be able to be included in custom schemes based upon video footage I'e seen, which is a major error

7. I don't think there's any sort of a global chat lobby, at least not that we have been shown... this in and of itself is one of the primary reasons why the other Worms games are pretty much dead. Lack of communication within the already fractured player base = bad news

8. Content from other IPs in the game... I find it really annoying, personally

9. The crafting system in general... I feel that it is gimmicky and artificially limits the gameplay, while also adding a luck factor in that I do not like

10. The map editor seems overly simplistic

11. Lack of many customization options that would objectively make the game better and offer more replay value and potential

12. Lack of terrain themes (at launch)

13. A continuation of the crappy, useless ranking system they've used previously. Also, only one ranked mode. needs a complete overhaul and the game isn't even out yet.

14. No AI in online multiplayer

15. No mission editor for those who want to make and share cool missions with the community

16. A lack of anyone with W:A ninja rope skills demonstrating the rope and giving an honest and unbiased opinion on how it compares (I'm a hardcore rope fan, so this is important)

17. Lack of info on importing maps... when it will be supported, maximum image dimensions supported, etc

18. A regress in terms of no dynamic water, no (optional) worm classes, no physics objects, etc. No Wormpot like options... I dunno why including past features as optional would be seen as anything less than a good idea.

19. cant customize weapon damage values, or probability of drops per weapon type... only a global % chance of a weapon crate landing

20. heavily divided community between consoles, steam, and gog

21. little info from Team17 regarding their role in-game after launch and what kind of official events will be implemented (I doubt the involvement is going to be much more than getting the game stable)
____

What I see so far is a new Worms title geared towards casuals/noobs. It will be fun for those who aren't competitive Worms players, but it's kinda a finger in the eye for long-time vets.

[Snowcone Guy]

Okay so I found a good example from one of the recent streams:


https://youtu.be/reQoQXE5FsU
Go to around 14:00 and look at the attack that is happening. (Watch in Full-Screen.)

I notice two things:

1. After the barrel at to bottom explodes, you see a mine bouncing around in the fire.
Look at it. I think the physics for this look really great. In my opinion, it looks just like a mine bouncing around in Armageddon.

2. Look at all the worms that take damage.
They barely get moved at all. Maybe it's just very small damage, like getting hit by a single piece from a cluster grenade.
Still, they look like they are glued to the ground.


So for me personally, 1. looks awesome, 2. looks underwhelming.


But now, go to 56:10 in the video.
There is an airstrike happening. And like with many other airstrikes that I've seen in W.M.D., the worm that gets hit does not leave the ground for a single pixel.
In my mind, the worm shound at least get launched in the air a little bit, flying a little bow.

But it seem that the worms in this game do barely get airborne from explosions that happen on their sides or on top of them. It seems, that an explosion has to happen directly under them to get them in the air.

I wish the worms would be more bouncy.

[```skunk3```]

Look at 57:18 in that video and how the worm reacts to getting hit with a bunker buster. I've never seen worms fly like that after getting hit with that weapon...

[Yotta]

The game looks kind of slow (bullet movement, animation, worm flight, super sheep,,..). But better than other games after WWP. Rope seems ok.

Worm/Bazooka can't tap the water, or? (like a stone you throw in a sea with high horizonzal speed). In W:A, WWP they can. It's a nice feature.

Exploded Barrels don't burn for many rounds.

Vehicle movment abilities are high, but ok I think. But they should have less healthpoints and at explosion deal more damge to worms close by or in the vehicle. But you should be able to allow or restrict vehicle types in the scheme menu.

[Kyle-Z-Guile]

I think the fact that you can hijack vehilcles make them balanced enough.

[Snowcone Guy]

Originally posted by ```skunk3```:

Look at 57:18 in that video and how the worm reacts to getting hit with a bunker buster. I've never seen worms fly like that after getting hit with that weapon...

Hmm it may is unusual for this weapon (It's a while since I played Reloaded) but I like not just the fact that the worm is flying, but also the curve and speed.

[Nadiya]

Originally posted by Snowcone Guy:

Yeah I think I may have to agree that it was a little bit to easy to drown worms in WA/WWP, in the context that the actual weapons often rather became tools to "plop" someone than to actually kill them.

But that also depended on the maps.

For example, Shopper/Shoppa is played on indestructable maps, which only have acess to the water where the map creator intended it. And (at least on a good map) the possibility that another player could drown you was usually a punishment for not resting your worm at a save hide at the end of your turn.

Also it was a lot of fun and pretty satisfying to "plop" someone :P
The sound alone!
https://youtu.be/2idEcUigicI

In general, even though I perosnally don't prefer it if the gravity is heavier and airborne items have less "travel", I could live with that as long as I have the feeling that the items are bouncing off in the right angle in relation to the surface and their own hitbox.

You know, as long as the physics don't feel incorrect (--> cheap) like for example in Worms: A Space Oddity on Wii.

(Yes, I actually played that...)

But even if the physics of W.M.D. do deflect objects correctly, it's hard tell, as you don't see much of it because objects only fly through the air for a split second before becoming motionless again.

Often, mines that got shot in the air because of a nearby explosion came to a complete halt even before the effects of the explosion (like smoke and particles) were over.

And besides drowining worms and bouncing grenades off walls BnG style,
one of the fun things to do with the WA/WWP physics was to deal double damage in your turn. 1x damage from the weapon you just used and 1x additional damage from the nearby mine that got blown away in that explosion and landed just where you calculated it to do.

I remember when they showed off W.M.D. for the very first time,
Team 17 was talking about how they not just wanted to bring back the original ninja rope physics, but also how they wanted to try to recreate the physics of WA.

I don't see much of that right now, it looks much closer to W:R than WA. :(

Thanks for including my tricky shot video. :) You can see that Buddy made a outstanding trick that he ploped three worms in the split way with using Baseball bat at once.

Oh and check out my other videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6uE6766FU (Homing Pigeon Epic Fail)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13yffyBJjTo (Grenade Epic Plop)

[Snowcone Guy]

I played several games of BnG lately and noticed that throwable weapons don't bounce as you expect them most of the time, especially if you throw them against a clean vertical line.

You can see here what I mean:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=758685067

In the past, bouncing grenades was like playing pool:
You tried to calculate how they would be deflected by the environment.
But it feels to me, like that element is now gone.

[Ting🍊]

The physics are not as good as Armageddon but they're okay. The first impressions I had with them is that:

- magnets have a very strict deflection/attraction radius, it's either bullets gets completely deflected or aren't affected at all. There is barely any affecting bullets trajectory if they happened to pass out of the visual radius, at least from what I've seen

-there are some bugs with the projectiles, if a worm gets hit multiple times in rapid succession (be it with uzi, machine gun or multiblasted by bananas) the bullets/bananas sometimes phase through him without hitting him.

- Vehicles exploding should be one hell of a blast; they aren't. They don't do much damage and they don't blast away worms much either.

I was too concerned with how weird the camera is to properly check the physics tho.

[Snowcone Guy]

Yeah I like the physics in genera too, allthough I feel that there is to much friction going on, almost like the Glue Mode from WWP would be activated.

But in the case I showed in that picture, I think something is off there.

About the explosion radius of vehicles, I would agree, but that´s less about the physics, and more about the value of that explosion.