The amount of delay between turns is unforgivable

[Sancheese]

15 years ago it was forgivable to have a game take so long to shift gears between turns, but I almost laughed out loud when I saw that this game *still* suffers from that flaw. I just want to take a turn, pass to the next player, and let them take theirs. After everything settles, why take another 5 seconds before showing the damage, then wait another 5 seconds after displaying the damage before moving on? It's ridiculous! I can understand if some players would prefer to have that delay, especially when starting out, but it should be *OPTIONAL*. Otherwise, it's all adds up to giant waste of time.

Not to mention how unexplainably long the AI takes to execute their turn...

Ugh, this game is an unpolished mess that I wouldn't recommend to anyone.

[```skunk3```]

It doesn't take THAT long, jeez.

Worms is a game of patience, and clearly you lack it.

[HiTmAn]

wors are tactical game i use time in my adventage to think what to do

[Sancheese]

Originally posted by ```skunk3```:

Worms is a game of patience, and clearly you lack it.

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. Why is it a game of patience? Because of this flaw? Well imagine if it didn't exist!

I've played plenty of other TBS games such as Civ, HoMM, Chess (lulz), etc. and I've never had this complaint with those games. Yes, it takes time to execute AI turns or simply change turns, but I *never* thought it was an unreasonable amount of time.

Imagine a game of chess on the PC where every time a piece was moved, it did a dance, ate a sandwich, or just stopped for 5 sec for no apparent reason. That's what this game is! Now, the devs of that chess game would most likely have an option to turn that fluff/delay off, but that's not the case in this game. That's what's frustrating.

[kingjames488]

lol... I was just waiting for you to complain about the AI...

that's a great example. obviously the AI calculates what it's going to do within miliseconds and the rest is just fluff, but there are at least 2 good reasons for them to take so long.
- first, and probably most important, is so you have time to craft things on their turn.
- second, it adds to the level of immersion.

[32x32 Riker jpeg]

Originally posted by Khaztr:

Originally posted by ```skunk3```:

Worms is a game of patience, and clearly you lack it.

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. Why is it a game of patience? Because of this flaw? Well imagine if it didn't exist!

I've played plenty of other TBS games such as Civ, HoMM, Chess (lulz), etc. and I've never had this complaint with those games. Yes, it takes time to execute AI turns or simply change turns, but I *never* thought it was an unreasonable amount of time.

Imagine a game of chess on the PC where every time a piece was moved, it did a dance, ate a sandwich, or just stopped for 5 sec for no apparent reason. That's what this game is! Now, the devs of that chess game would most likely have an option to turn that fluff/delay off, but that's not the case in this game. That's what's frustrating.

A.I. Worms take too long to make thier moves but Civ A.I. don't?
Tell me more about this magical fantasy land you live in. :3

[```skunk3```]

Originally posted by Regal Rabbit:

Originally posted by Khaztr:

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. Why is it a game of patience? Because of this flaw? Well imagine if it didn't exist!

I've played plenty of other TBS games such as Civ, HoMM, Chess (lulz), etc. and I've never had this complaint with those games. Yes, it takes time to execute AI turns or simply change turns, but I *never* thought it was an unreasonable amount of time.

Imagine a game of chess on the PC where every time a piece was moved, it did a dance, ate a sandwich, or just stopped for 5 sec for no apparent reason. That's what this game is! Now, the devs of that chess game would most likely have an option to turn that fluff/delay off, but that's not the case in this game. That's what's frustrating.

A.I. Worms take too long to make thier moves but Civ A.I. don't?
Tell me more about this magical fantasy land you live in. :3

I was about to say that. Playing Civ games vs. AI feels like torture compared to Worms, although I do admit the AI in Worms games can be pretty damn stupid and waste time for no apparent reason.

Originally posted by Khaztr:

Originally posted by ```skunk3```:

Worms is a game of patience, and clearly you lack it.

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. Why is it a game of patience? Because of this flaw? Well imagine if it didn't exist!

I've played plenty of other TBS games such as Civ, HoMM, Chess (lulz), etc. and I've never had this complaint with those games. Yes, it takes time to execute AI turns or simply change turns, but I *never* thought it was an unreasonable amount of time.

Imagine a game of chess on the PC where every time a piece was moved, it did a dance, ate a sandwich, or just stopped for 5 sec for no apparent reason. That's what this game is! Now, the devs of that chess game would most likely have an option to turn that fluff/delay off, but that's not the case in this game. That's what's frustrating.

It meant what I said. Worms is a game of patience, especially if you are playing vs. AI. The AI in all of the Worms games has always been terrible, and that's because it would be extremely hard to code it to play like an actual human. At best the AI is a perfect aimbot that never misses a shot. At worst it hurts itself and/or wastes a bunch of time. As far as the time between turns, that is so the turn can reconcile, damage can be calculated, and things can explode if they take enough damage. These are all necessary things to happen before the next turn can start, otherwise you're not beginning your turn with the full knowledge of what transpired previously.

Worms is infinitely more complicated than Chess, and even in other turn-based strategy games where there's more options, few are actually as complicated as Worms if you think about it... even if they appear to be more complicated on the surface.

That said, you shouldn't even waste your time playing vs. AI anyway unless you're just trying to complete the single player crap. Single player has never been the selling point of Worms titles. The real fun and replay value comes from online multiplayer, or at the very least local multiplayer.

[Sancheese]

Originally posted by king(strange)james488:

- first, and probably most important, is so you have time to craft things on their turn.

Thanks for pointing that out! It's the only valid explanation I've heard so far (for the AI taking so long), and it does make total sense.

I still don't get the uncessary delay between turns, where literally nothing is ocurring besides some animations. Immersion is a good thing IMO, but not when it's forced on you.

Originally posted by ```skunk3```:

Worms is infinitely more complicated than Chess, and even in other turn-based strategy games where there's more options, few are actually as complicated as Worms if you think about it... even if they appear to be more complicated on the surface.

Oh wow, I hope you're not implying that it's actually takes a long time for the AI to calculate their turn.

And I'm not going to even start about how wrong you are about the complexity of this game vs chess and others...

[```skunk3```]

Originally posted by Khaztr:

Originally posted by king(strange)james488:

- first, and probably most important, is so you have time to craft things on their turn.

Thanks for pointing that out! It's the only valid explanation I've heard so far (for the AI taking so long), and it does make total sense.

I still don't get the uncessary delay between turns, where literally nothing is ocurring besides some animations. Immersion is a good thing IMO, but not when it's forced on you.

Originally posted by ```skunk3```:

Worms is infinitely more complicated than Chess, and even in other turn-based strategy games where there's more options, few are actually as complicated as Worms if you think about it... even if they appear to be more complicated on the surface.

Oh wow, I hope you're not implying that it's actually takes a long time for the AI to calculate their turn.

And I'm not going to even start about how wrong you are about the complexity of this game vs chess and others...

People love to compare Worms to Chess. I've participated in several discussions on the matter over the years. Chess is a very enclosed system. You have certain pieces which can only do certain things and you have a certain grid that you play on. Worms is WAY MORE COMPLICATED than that. Worms not only relies upon strategy, but skill as well to support the strategy.

Not only are the maps we play on randomly generated, they take damage as the game goes on, so things change constantly, unlike a chess board. There's also a huge variety of weapons and utilities to use. Chess is a game of memorizing and identifying plays. Worms is far more fluid than that. You can read books on Chess and study up on the most commonly-used strategies. You can't do that with Worms. You can only gain experience as a player as you play the game.

Quite frankly, it is not an "apples to apples" comparison. They are both turn-based strategy games, sure, but they are quite different. Personally I feel that on the whole Worms takes more skill to be godly at than Chess because there's so many more things to calculate, and that's exactly why Worms AI is never going to be great until they somehow break some ceiling with quantum computing and analyze replay files so that a Worms AI can learn.

[Revalopod]

What annoys me is that “5 seconds of nothing occuring” after a turn has been taken. So someone just had their turn right? We see the aftermath and destruction. Now their turn is over, but for some weird reason we have to wait 5 seconds before it’s the next guys turn. And you CANNOT CRAFT WEAPONS during this delay period, since it’s not actually anyones turn. It’s just a waste of time. Yeah it’s only 5 seconds. But after 12 turns, that’s 1 minute. Assume 12 turns takes 6 minutes. 6 minutes of gameplay includes 1 minute worth of those 5 second delays.
So play the game for say 100 hours, and the there is 16.666 WHOLE HOURS OF ABSOLUTE NOTHINGNESS. it’s get excruciatingly boring. To add insult to injury, we often have to watch crates fall from the sky like feathers, taking what feels like 30 seconds to land. What exciting gameplay! And pressing space to get rid of the parachute barely speeds up the crate.

[```skunk3```]

The only delay that occurs after an attack has been made and damage has been determined is waiting for crates to drop, or in the case of sudden death, for water to rise. There is a 'hot seat' timer that occurs between turns but that is interruptable by the player whose turn is next. The reason why this delay exists is so that people playing multiplayer locally have the chance to pass the controller if they are using one, or get up from the keyboard and let the next person sit down. If the turns started immediately after damage calculations people would frequently lose precious seconds during their turns. This doesn't matter that much if you're playing with 60+ second turns but if you're playing a scheme with 30 second turns you need every second in some cases. So what if you can't craft during the hot seat period? You can just craft a couple of seconds later. It isn't a big deal and not worth complaining about at all.

You're assuming that every single turn will have the maximum amount of time 'wasted' during the hot seat period, which simply isn't the case. A lot of people start their turns the moment they can and do not wait for the hot seat timer to end. You're also assuming that people are taking the full amount of time from the turn timer they get every single time, which isn't the case most of the time.

Have you ever played a Worms game before WMD? This delay between turns has ALWAYS existed unless I'm forgetting something. This complaining about having to wait a couple of seconds between turns is petty. Worms is a game of patience and strategy. During that hot seat time you should be looking at the battlefield and figuring out what you're going to do on your turn if you don't already know what you're doing. You want to take advantage of every second when it's NOT your turn so that when it IS your turn you can jump into action immediately and not waste any of your turn time figuring out who you're going to attack, which weapon you will use, where you will hide, etc.