Puppet states the good and the bad.

[alation13]

I have to admit this is the first total war game where I have bothered about puppet states. That is mainly because while playing as the sassanids you are required to have a certain number of them as a victory condition.

First, the Bad.

They tend to steal provences that you with to take for yourself, and honetly that has been enough of a reason for me to destroy them in the past.

You can't make a deal where you can swap provences with them so that you make entire sets of three provences together, or for that matter give them any provences you don't want. (to keep the sets of three or just because they are crap)

Second, the good.

Lots of tribute from them. I am at about turn 80 with the Sassanids have 12 puppet states and they are sending OVER 30K a turn to my treasury. That is more than my entire Frankish empire after 120 turns. It is enough for upkeep for 10 full army stacks without even worrying about my own income. I am sitting on almost 1 mil denars and can't find anything to spend it on.

They are competant at war. They are not great but can hold their own against any attackers, and when you have a few near each other they tend to wear down even stronger foes. And they "patrol" your lands taking out any rebals the turn they spawn.

Great buffers. When the Huns come down from the north I will easily have 8-10 turns of prior warning to consolidate my forces and wear them down. Compared to having 7 full Hun stacks "appearing" on my borders with 1 turns notice before my towns get razed with my frankish empire, I will take the buffer states.

Trade. More of a cash cow from them. Combined with the tribute I can field 10 full stacks of the best troops I can make and still have my treasury increase by 75K a turn. Lots of trade partners and high value goods equals money money money.

Last I will mention that they are permament friends. Some people have said they rebel, but I have found that they always give me the green smiley face with +100 friendship no matter who I declare war on. Just make sure that you uncheck the "invite allies" button when you declare, they will join the war anyway (even if you don't want them to) but seem to be very happy you have not forced them to join.


Sorry about the wall of text but there seems to be very little information on puppet states on these forums so far.

[Mexican Rambo]

I managed to get WRE as my puppet state while as the Ostrogoths in migration mode. Their income was very welcome. Ironicly, I ended up taking WRE lands with the money they gave me.

[JePeVe]

How do you manage to keep such a good relation with your puppet states?
As sassanids I recently has a bunch of my puppet states declare war on me, I try everything to just have a good relation with them, even giving them gifts.

My biggest problem are the puppet states that condemn great power.

[Mexican Rambo]

Originally posted by ---> JPV <---:

How do you manage to keep such a good relation with your puppet states?
As sassanids I recently has a bunch of my puppet states declare war on me, I try everything to just have a good relation with them, even giving them gifts.

Well I haven't played as the Sassanids, but with other factions. If a puppet state declares war on me, I sack their cities until rebels take them over. On their last city, I force them to become my puppet state once more

Rinse and repeat.

[JePeVe]

Yeah, I use to force them to become my puppet state again. I just used to raze their other regions, then hope that one of the better puppet state will restore those regions.
but sacking them until the rebels take over sounds better, I have not tought so much about that. When the rebels take over, can you make them a puppet state?

Originally posted by Mexican Rambo:

Originally posted by ---> JPV <---:

How do you manage to keep such a good relation with your puppet states?
As sassanids I recently has a bunch of my puppet states declare war on me, I try everything to just have a good relation with them, even giving them gifts.

Well I haven't played as the Sassanids, but with other factions. If a puppet state declares war on me, I sack their cities until rebels take them over. On their last city, I force them to become my puppet state once more

Rinse and repeat.

[alation13]

Originally posted by ---> JPV <---:

How do you manage to keep such a good relation with your puppet states?
As sassanids I recently has a bunch of my puppet states declare war on me, I try everything to just have a good relation with them, even giving them gifts.

My biggest problem are the puppet states that condemn great power.

I am not sure, all I have done is if anyone declares war on a puppet state I support them even against allies. I have a -150 diplomatic penalty due to be a great power but I still get green smiley faces all round. I am now 130 or so turns into the game and I still have had not a single issue with one rebelling against me. I am playing normal difficulity so maybe at harder difficulity they are harder to keep in line.

[alation13]

OK I now have a red puppet state, it was the western roman seperatates. I will see what I can do to turn them green.

[Mexican Rambo]

Originally posted by ---> JPV <---:

Yeah, I use to force them to become my puppet state again. I just used to raze their other regions, then hope that one of the better puppet state will restore those regions.
but sacking them until the rebels take over sounds better, I have not tought so much about that. When the rebels take over, can you make them a puppet state?

Originally posted by Mexican Rambo:

Well I haven't played as the Sassanids, but with other factions. If a puppet state declares war on me, I sack their cities until rebels take them over. On their last city, I force them to become my puppet state once more

Rinse and repeat.

Depends, certain rebel factions will form into smaller factions, others will contiinue to be a hostile rebel force.

[alation13]

I have now found your issue with rebelling puppet states, it seems if they are better friends with factions that you declare war on they may join the war against you. Since almost every war I had previously entered was because some faction had declared war on one of my puppets and because until I hit central/western europe I was still running around with my green smiley puppets declaring war on "their" enemies only made them happier with me. That is going to make it very hard to maintain 20 different puppet states, 15 is relitively easy to maintain, but there aren't enough "friendly" enemies to get all 20. Maybe being at war with 10 different factions and trying to finish them all off around the same time might work. If anyone else tries this before me can you let me know how it turns out.

[Kotli]

Try liberating a faction then converting them into a puppet state, I did that with the Gauls as the Franks all my allues are all happy and freindly withe Gauls and the Gauls themselves have a huge relationship buff with me since I liberated them.

[alation13]

I was thinking of that but it is rather unreliable as since most of the world is desolate, but some neutrals are expanding so I could try and liberate "known" faction towns as forcing the last town of an enemy to be a puppet state tends to pi$$ them off big time.