Himyar, And Pict Historically Accurate?

[[GB] I.Rapid]

Hello Fellow Gamers/ATTILA fans,

I'm deciding whether to play the Himyar, or Picts on my campaign. I think I might try the Himyar, As I always seem to go for the British factions in Total War games, So I need a change.

But here's the thing. I don't care too much for historic accuracy, as I'm sure even the experts of history won't know everything. But my question is this;

Did the Himyar actually go into battle wearing the silver masks? They look like the 'Immortals' from the 300 movie. I know there were some armies that wore masks, but the Himyar don't seem to have any record from what I have googled?

And as for the Picts - I was always aware that the Picts were a tribal people that wore next to nothing in clothing, painted their bodies in blue, and lived in the highlands of Scotland.

Attila seems to depict them as an organised army of body armour wearing vikings. But Really - we have no evidence of The Picts - They vanished from History, and we don't know too much about them.

So how accurate are the factions of these two? Not much from what I can see.

[BantisXimm]

I don't know about the Himyar. That's the campaign I'm playing right now and I looked them up as well out of curiosity.

Originally posted by GB I.Rapid:

And as for the Picts - I was always aware that the Picts were a tribal people that wore next to nothing in clothing, painted their bodies in blue, and lived in the highlands of Scotland.

As for the Picts... looking at the roster[www.honga.net], you certainly see some fit the style you describe. Even the ones that don't fit that description aren't exactly wearing heavy layered clothing. So my guess would be that's probably more accurate given the geography than everyone just running around shirtless and tattooed. I'm sure some did but it seems to me more logical that it would be a mix of that and lighter clothes. That's just a guess on my part though.

Originally posted by GB I.Rapid:

Attila seems to depict them as an organised army of body armour wearing vikings. But Really - we have no evidence of The Picts - They vanished from History, and we don't know too much about them.

Because the game is based on historical factions during roughly the same time period sometimes the visual differences between factions are going to be subtle. If you look at the Pict roster[www.honga.net] and then a Viking roster[www.honga.net] it's similar but the Vikings are wearing heavier armor and the Picts are wearing lighter clothes. Visually it doesn't jump out. The Vikings have their crazy shirtless guys too though. Both are human factions. Both not very far apart geographically. Makes me wonder would they really be all that radically different?

Originally posted by GB I.Rapid:

So how accurate are the factions of these two? Not much from what I can see.

I think the depiction and idea of accuracy is what CA goes for rather than the letter of the law. It's got to be a game at the end of the day. So do they look like Picts or Vikings? Are they based on actual history and what people think of when they think of those groups? If the answer is yes to both I bet they run with that.

I saw someone quote CA as saying they're going for something more along the lines of loose historical accuracy rather than historical realism.

BTW when I was looking up information on Himyar I did see this[i.imgur.com]. I don't know if they wore it in battle or not but it did make me think of someone on the dev team seeing that and saying, "I don't know if the Himyar wore this when fighting but it'd be super cool to have some units in the game that wore this thing!" Loose historical accuracy. :)

[76561198136486743]

Have a look at this thread.
{LINK REMOVED}https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/1493237#Comment_1493237

[[GB] I.Rapid]

Originally posted by Joshua.Baldwin:

Have a look at this thread.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/1493237#Comment_1493237

Interesting, but I do believe this faction, and the 'Pict' faction are well-off from reality, and historic accuracy.

I'm not an expert, but to say the Himyar wore silver masks in battle due to a few references to full head masks is absurd.

Let's not forget that the Himyar were situated in the middle eastern region - So to wear full metal helmets would have been crazy - due to the intense heat of the region. Most men would probably have passed out in battle, and it would have been harder to move an army like that due to the constant need of water.

The head masks we see today were more than likely used for ceremonial, and decoration purposes. Yet still - I am playing this faction because the soldiers look like the 'Immortals' from 300 - So I'm not complaining. I love the masks, but I'm pretty sure I'm right that the Himyar never wore masks in battle.

Anyway - I'm loving Attila right now. I'm addicted like I was with Rome 2.

[76561198136486743]

Oh of course. We make no claims to replicate the rank and file armies of history with scrupulous accuracy (especially the lesser known factions). If we did the variety and spectacle would seriously decrease. Instead we try to express the most important aspects of these societies through their units, extrapolating items that did exist into wider scenarios.
I will say though, that inscriptions show Himyar units wearing heavy armour and full helmets. Battles would rarely have been fought by them in the full desert, but would have mostly been in the cooler coastal regions. So it's plausable that this type of helmet may have seen combat.

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by GB I.Rapid:

Originally posted by Joshua.Baldwin:

Have a look at this thread.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/1493237#Comment_1493237

Let's not forget that the Himyar were situated in the middle eastern region - So to wear full metal helmets would have been crazy - due to the intense heat of the region. Most men would probably have passed out in battle, and it would have been harder to move an army like that due to the constant need of water.

Well it is said that if you only coul get one piece of armor in ancient/medieval times, that would be a helmet.

[76561198136486743]

Also, where did you find the mask in your link? I've never seen it, but it's interesting! Looks like it might be a little later though.

[BantisXimm]

Originally posted by Joshua.Baldwin:

Also, where did you find the mask in your link? I've never seen it, but it's interesting! Looks like it might be a little later though.

The original link of the image is this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/0925_Kipchak_style_helmet_13th_c.JPG

Which I found in part of this thread[www.twcenter.net].

[Teh_Diplomat]

The Himyarites we're essentially unknown in History until the 1970's if I recall - It was at that time, that archeologists began discovering releifs, and tablets that indicated a Warlike faction in Modern-day Yemen that had actually converted to Judaism in order to continue their war on neighbouring powers in the Region.

From what historians can decipher, eventually the King was mutinited, because he was perpetually launching military campaigns, to point that his soldiers became exhausted.

So as for their style, the mask may be something they actually did wear, or it could have been thrown in because it was in use in the region at this time in history.

[chef]

Well in game picts are celtic. But some roman historians and explorers actually said the picts were much closer to scythian culture then the surrounding celts. But thats a controversal subject ether way. CA did a good enough job.

[Rawdypiper]

Granted my knowledge of south Arabian history is the product of about a days recent research, but I’d like to share a few points for perpetuity:

First of all it’s crazy to talk about Arabia like “it’s so hot they would be baking, etc” like there is no night, no highlands and mountains (great skiing in at least one place btw), no variation of season, just Arabia, land of endless desert sun, every second of every day. There is a cooler season where it might be ~70F in the desert, and then you have coastal regions, wadis, etc. I imagine that at least elite troops would carry armor to battle even if not intending to wear it all day.

That brings me to a point about portrayal and variety. You got to cut them some slack because like they have said they exaggerated distinctions between cultures and troop types for the sake of FUN. The Himyar seem to have been most heavily influenced by the Sassanians at least in the core of their fighting force and how they approached fortification. To a lesser extent by Axum at the coast, and the Bedouin. I’ve seen the reliefs depicting masked helmets, it makes sense the elite aswar might wear distinctive masks like the Savaran. Like most historians they inferred something in order to make their army more destinctive which is cool. It’s enough for me to say “why not?!” But the main thing to take away beyond the game is how interesting pre Islamic Arabia was and how they, sitting on the trade routes could take the best from many cultures, despite how fraught their position was.