real life strategic battles are useless in attila

[fat gaben]

i tried many times some real life used tactics like attacking from the wings and hammer and anvil and they are totally useless , they deal slightly very small extra damaga

for example mine and enemy lines where fighting , i pushed another unit from the enemy left , so the enmy unit is now fighting 2 units of mine at same time , however my both units wavered and they are still holding wtfff !!! and they are at same medium level of units spearmen as my units !!!!!

[Haggis]

Err you are very wrong. You can defeat far superior troops by attacking them from the flanks or rear. Not only do you get a bonus to the amount of damage that you cause, but it does HUGE morale damage.

The only slightly troublesome thing in totalwar games is that the units often move in a retarded way and can end up with half their unit stuck behind a friendly unit, when in reality you wanted to completely sandwich the foe. It just takes a little bit more micro-ing and you need to make sure they have enough room to maneouvre, it's fairly simple after a little practice though.

[fat gaben]

Originally posted by Haggis:

Err you are very wrong. You can defeat far superior troops by attacking them from the flanks or rear. Not only do you get a bonus to the amount of damage that you cause, but it does HUGE morale damage.

The only slightly troublesome thing in totalwar games is that the units often move in a retarded way and can end up with half their unit stuck behind a friendly unit, when in reality you wanted to completely sandwich the foe. It just takes a little bit more micro-ing and you need to make sure they have enough room to maneouvre, it's fairly simple after a little practice though.

i do understand what you mean by moving in a stupid way, instead of expanding on the flanks or the back, they move to conennect to the friendly line, what really made me feels disappointed , that i did flanked many times however i really don't feel that much difference.

for example, when you attack with full unit of 160 fighters for example on 40 or 30 fighters of enemy team

sometimes it takes the whole battle time to finish them off even if they waver, they just walk through my units without my units harm them !!! its like the single 1 soldier of enemy unit is surrounded by 5 soldiers of my unit however they still take long time to kill him

5 : 1 in ration and they still hold long enough, so am saying that the developers couldn't make the AI smart enough , so they addedd slightly small amount of cheats for the AI which is pretty obvious when you play on legendry diffuclty for example

however in realistic calculation they should be wiped out in a minute or a less

[easytarget]

This isn't a simulation and never claims to be.

If you want to play a game that is a simulation where you'll get destroyed if you don't in fact use real life tactics then check out the Battlefront Combat Mission series.

Total War has never been really more than rock, paper scissors.

[Big Boss]

Pretty much all I use are real world tactics, i suggest using more missile troops

[fat gaben]

Originally posted by easytarget:

This isn't a simulation and never claims to be.

If you want to play a game that is a simulation where you'll get destroyed if you don't in fact use real life tactics then check out the Battlefront Combat Mission series.

Total War has never been really more than rock, paper scissors.

wat wat wat !!!!!! total war is not simulation????? my whole life is a lie :-|

[Dayve]

It's the engine. It was the same in Empire, Shogun 2, Rome 2 and now this. This engine is terrible for melee battles (though Shogun 2 really did manage to pull it off).

Original Rome and Medieval 2 had the best possibilities for using real world tactics. Units moved in a more realistic manner, those games had real collision detection (cavalry was epic in those games) and individual soldiers could fight one another and gang up on other soldiers and so on.

In Rome 2 and Attila everything is just kind of one big moshpit. When I play this game I mostly auto-resolve battles.

[fat gaben]

Originally posted by Dayve:

It's the engine. It was the same in Empire, Shogun 2, Rome 2 and now this. This engine is terrible for melee battles (though Shogun 2 really did manage to pull it off).

Original Rome and Medieval 2 had the best possibilities for using real world tactics. Units moved in a more realistic manner, those games had real collision detection (cavalry was epic in those games) and individual soldiers could fight one another and gang up on other soldiers and so on.

In Rome 2 and Attila everything is just kind of one big moshpit. When I play this game I mostly auto-resolve battles.

"and individual soldiers could fight one another and gang up on other soldiers and so on." this is exactly what i was trying to say along time ago but couldn't express it in the perfect words.

[Haggis]

Originally posted by Mad Sam:

for example, when you attack with full unit of 160 fighters for example on 40 or 30 fighters of enemy team

sometimes it takes the whole battle time to finish them off even if they waver, they just walk through my units without my units harm them !!! its like the single 1 soldier of enemy unit is surrounded by 5 soldiers of my unit however they still take long time to kill him

I have noticed this and sometimes it seems that your men forget that they are supposed to be fighting. Right clicking multiple times in anger/frustration/desperation seems to do the trick, though whether or not this is just placebo I am not actually sure. There are some big question marks concerning some of what goes on in totalwar games...

However in general using real life tactics DOES make a pretty big difference. There's been a few battles that I've lost and replayed, and maximising charge bonuses and flanking has changed brutal defeats into seemingly easy victories. Using shield walls turns a squishy unit into a near impenetrable bulwark, and swapping what kind of arrows you are using to match what you are shooting makes such a large difference that I can barely believe that I neglected it for so long. Seriously, 2 units of archers using flaming arrows vs cavalry general or heavy arrows vs infantry general, will kill their general and completely obliterate the entire squad in about 30 seconds flat. Its insane.

[Kentathor]

Still better then the older games in terms of morale, flanking and viable tactics. The only thing that's way worse is unit collision.
I suggest you use mods. I use Tuskmod since it changes everything from cavalry impact and ability to pull out the cavalry to how units behave in battle, morale etc. It do however change campaign mechanics, to the better in my opinion, but if you don't want them I suggest you install some of the many other mods that change this. With them the battles are far superior to at least all other total wars.

[fat gaben]

Originally posted by Haggis:

Originally posted by Mad Sam:

for example, when you attack with full unit of 160 fighters for example on 40 or 30 fighters of enemy team

sometimes it takes the whole battle time to finish them off even if they waver, they just walk through my units without my units harm them !!! its like the single 1 soldier of enemy unit is surrounded by 5 soldiers of my unit however they still take long time to kill him

I have noticed this and sometimes it seems that your men forget that they are supposed to be fighting. Right clicking multiple times in anger/frustration/desperation seems to do the trick, though whether or not this is just placebo I am not actually sure. There are some big question marks concerning some of what goes on in totalwar games...

However in general using real life tactics DOES make a pretty big difference. There's been a few battles that I've lost and replayed, and maximising charge bonuses and flanking has changed brutal defeats into seemingly easy victories. Using shield walls turns a squishy unit into a near impenetrable bulwark, and swapping what kind of arrows you are using to match what you are shooting makes such a large difference that I can barely believe that I neglected it for so long. Seriously, 2 units of archers using flaming arrows vs cavalry general or heavy arrows vs infantry general, will kill their general and completely obliterate the entire squad in about 30 seconds flat. Its insane.

i don't deny what you are talking about , these strats have impact, cuz its featured and supported by the game engine, but am talking about the casulties and kills calculation...

when a bunch of archers are shooting on crowdy area of 5 units , every arrow hit must deal a kill or maybe a little less , however thats not true in tw attile

i played in bottlenecks many times and sometimes the infantry get even more kills than archers ! when you are stuck in a bottleneck and there is archer unit on the walls raining you with arrows while you are stuck in very small area ! who should get more kills? archers or infantry

am talking about the kills and battle mechanics they are much better than rome2 but they are still not so realistic enough

[fat gaben]

Originally posted by Kentathor:

Still better then the older games in terms of morale, flanking and viable tactics. The only thing that's way worse is unit collision.
I suggest you use mods. I use Tuskmod since it changes everything from cavalry impact and ability to pull out the cavalry to how units behave in battle, morale etc. It do however change campaign mechanics, to the better in my opinion, but if you don't want them I suggest you install some of the many other mods that change this. With them the battles are far superior to at least all other total wars.

yea i agree,i liked attila and i went to rome2 cuz ppl said rome 2 is better. however, i was disappointed. attila is way much advanced than rome 2

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by Mad Sam:

Originally posted by Kentathor:

Still better then the older games in terms of morale, flanking and viable tactics. The only thing that's way worse is unit collision.
I suggest you use mods. I use Tuskmod since it changes everything from cavalry impact and ability to pull out the cavalry to how units behave in battle, morale etc. It do however change campaign mechanics, to the better in my opinion, but if you don't want them I suggest you install some of the many other mods that change this. With them the battles are far superior to at least all other total wars.

yea i agree,i liked attila and i went to rome2 cuz ppl said rome 2 is better. however, i was disappointed. attila is way much advanced than rome 2

I like both but Attila has more stuff and feels deeper yeah. Rome 2 is more sandboxy and slightly more interesting time-period and units.

[Teh_Diplomat]

Not only are real world tactics more helpful in this iteration of Total War, but the morale has become an entirely seperate entity unto itself. You combine Hammer/Anvil, or a double- envelopment, or a skirmish and fall back approach they will all work to varying degrees (from slightly more effective, to absolutely crushing) depending on your army's composition, as well as your opponents - but the result is a crushing victory.

If you don't beleive so, try it out with a custom battle. Take a General from a faction who fights on foot. Take an missile troop, a unit of melee, and unit of cavalry.

Use the missiles to bait them into the infantry, have them fall back and move towards the side of the enemy where their shield is not present, while the cavalry run in. They will be slaughtered, and quickly.

Now just take those same three but charge them all in, towards the unit at the same time, and watch the difference.

[Raider Deci]

Sure it will, although the most elite troops will ofc hold out longer. Killing the morale is what wins you the battles. Teh_Diplomat said it very well above.


Total War Attila has in my opinion the best battle mechanics so far in any total war. Real life tactics are very viable, and those are the morale-killers that wins battles.

[Mile pro Libertate]

The tactical portion is fairly realistic, imo.

The strategic part is where it gets real gamey. For example, there are no population or other logistical requirements to raise troops, all that is needed are the proper buildings and money. Irl if you massacred a couple of "stacks" of warriors it might take a generation for that nation to have the manpower again to field any credible force.

Med 2 probably came closest to modeling this within TW, in the way that certain units, such as knights and yeomen archers, were limited in number, and you could only recruit so many of them over so many intervening turns.