Fondness of Flavius Honorius

[tiberiansun371alexw]

My friend once said the best thing you can do to Flavius Honorius Augustus is throw him with a skeleton army to fight off 3 full stacks, hoping he dies or if he wins all of them at least become useful. He's an indecisive attacker and early versions had a hidden code modifier giving -70% character xp (as a general, not as the general's unit in battle) while attacking. That modifier would not go away until the bodyaurd got 3 bronze chevrons or his unit killed the equavalent of 310% of a full infantry unit in battle. Flavius Honorius is still an indecisive attacker with low influence.

Yet, people on YouTube seem fond of him. Surreals Belifs wanted to make him the savior of the Western Roman Empire. Ledgend of Total War mentioend how he was going to make him a great general. Jackie said while Flavius Honorius was poor starting mateiral, he (as in Jackie) had in mind to give Flavius greatness. When Jackie thought Flavius was killed he paniced beofre realizing it was the province govonor who died (to be fair, at that point the bodygaurd had 3 bronze chevrons and Flabius Honorius himself had like 7 general skills and the 2nd best general so by this point he was worth keeping).

If you don't want to read, skip to "END OF EXAMPLES" just understand I'm saying many people are attached to him.

There are at least 7 YouTubers who played the unmodded game as the Western Roman Empire on Hard or very hard battle difficulty in single player who wanted to make him great.

In a Picts + WRE co-op one guy said (I kid you not, this campaign started 3 years to the day the game was released, not during recent events in USA) "I will turn Flavius Honorius into a great general and he will not let our leagacy be ruler by greeks who think they are Romans. He will make the Western Roman Empire great again"

Someone else played with mods. One mod turned all ERE rebels into WRE rebels (doesn't do much, diplomatically they are all rebel scum). One mod made Britain (the possible breakaway faction) gain Western Auxillae Palantina, Cornuti Seniores, Armigeri Defensores, Matiarii, Celtic Axe Warriors, Celtic Spears, Sighthound Spears, and a powerful but stupidly expensive charriot unit that doesn't seem to be in the game. It also gave Britain faction modifiers that, gave -70% matinetnce on Comitatensis Spears, allowed any army with at least 4 melee cavarly + charriots untis to have its first 3 scout equites maintence free, gave its Comitatensis Spears, Celtic Spears and Roman Heavy Marines +30% melee vs Liminati Boardergaurds, gave its Western Auxillae Palantina, Matiarii and Exploratores +40% melee attack vs Liminati, and gave its Comes, Scout Equites, Cornuti Seniores, Praeventores, and Cheiroballistra crew +200% melee attack and charge bonus vs Liminati. A third mod gve a one time event that spawned WRE seperatists if Londium is lost by the WRE or Rome or Londinium is sacked before summer 410 (giving an event flavor about Constantine III) or if Londinium is captured by Saxons, Britain, Gaul, Italia, or Visgoths after summer 410 (giving a more generic usuprion Carausian Revolt-style flavor with a random leader instead of the long dead Carausius). This also spawns full stacks that immediatly attack Londinium, Camuldunum, and Corinium regardless of ownership... NASTY. The final mod gave WRE permenant bonuses if the faction leader is a great-grandson of Flavius Honorius and you hold or recapture Rome plus 50 of your original starting cities... you know after all your problems are gone if you are still alive at this point. So none of the mods make anything easier, except the one that only helps you after you've lived long enough to solve your problems.
He started some videos that became unlisted by now (look up YT unlsited). He claimed he was going to have Flavius as a great general. Flavius Honorus had a flavoed miltiary camapign. His army beat the suebi early on, killed the Caladonians, and subjugated the Picts. They dealt with several rebllions in Gaul, killed 3 fulls stacks attacking Aquilia, went down to deal with mirators in Sicily and Eastern magna Gresia, recaputred Egypt for the WRE after it fell to Easterners, went up to Rhodes to capture it, and back to the Danube to deal with more incoming and I'm not at the end of his vidoes yet. Only his brother in-law was more impressive, beating 1 stack slightly bigger than his army plus 11 full stacks in a mere 25 turns with only minimal recruitment and ransoming most of the enemies.

END OF EXAMPLES

I know in many Total War Campaigns, people like to have an awesome general and they become attached to him. They also want to make him even better.

But why Flavius Honorius? Flavius is bad starting material, you have at least 5 guys leading armies at the start who can do it better. If you want to have a faction leader be awesome, it's easier to get him killed... someone not so incompetent can take over. Why do people want to make him awesome? I understand if he wins some battles, he becomes an asset and then you want him to be even better, but from the start of the campaign he kind of sucks.

People keep trying to turn a Caligula into a Mark Anthony (he was a good general despite his end), a Cladius, a Aulus Plautius, Suetonius Paulinus, or a Vespasian. Flavius Honorus starts the game in a decaying emprie as a walking disaster, like real life. I don't get it.

[RetroRun]

THEIR Opinion and taste dude, something part of fundamental human nature

[PrivateXTC]

He's an underdog, people like underdogs, turning bad to great. That simple really.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by PrivateXTC:

He's an underdog, people like underdogs, turning bad to great. That simple really.

Oh... kind of like Red Sox in the 2004 ALCS? The yankees beat them in the regular reason and it was like "we're bhind 1 game... no 2... ah ♥♥♥♥ now 3 games"

[Delacourt '27]

I think since he was the only "pure" Imperial family, and historical character, since Stillico was not Imperial, those players want win with him, doesn't matter how bad he is in game.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by Delacourt '27:

I think since he was the only "pure" Imperial family, and historical character, since Stillico was not Imperial, those players want win with him, doesn't matter how bad he is in game.

Intresting idea. It's true Stillico isn't a "pure" Imperial.

Although for the Roman equestira/patrician upper class did consider in-laws and adopted children the same as one by blood. Even if a wife had a child which was probably from an affair, that child was considered from the wife and husband and if a hustabnd did not execute a questionable origins child within 3 month of a birth, generaly the "father" would bear no grudge at that point.

That said, Flavius Honorius is the starting "pure" Imperial. Maybe restoration of the Western Roman Empire doesn't quite feel complete without him. Just as the real life "restoration" of the "Romans" under Flavius Belisarius doesn't look complete when he's working people who don't speak Latin as a first language (and in 300 years at all), don't have a court in ROME (and were not going to move there even if Flavius Belisarius was able to consolidate his restoration), don't have Rome's Old region (Roman paganism), don't have Rome's new relgion (the great schim didn't happen yet, but the Eastern "Romans" didn't give a crap about the Bishop of Rome unlike... actual christian Romans), use greek-style or eastern-style infantry, and whose court increasingly becoming eastern. If Flavius Belisarius and Justinian were Romans, any emperors and genrals afterwards certainly were only so in name. So I guess the story of saving the WRE needs saving its royal family too.

[Delacourt '27]

Just realized that I should use Royal/Imperial Blood, since Imperial can also be use other Flavious family members in the Other side, but not from the Primary Blood Line. And Stillico should have been in Other side too, but for game play, he was put as family member since he was the primary supporter of the Emperor.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by Delacourt '27:

Just realized that I should use Royal/Imperial Blood, since Imperial can also be use other Flavious family members in the Other side, but not from the Primary Blood Line. And Stillico should have been in Other side too, but for game play, he was put as family member since he was the primary supporter of the Emperor.

Still, I guess it's a similair idea