Help me understand this game

[birrebarre]

Cause i'm playing as Kingdom of Mercia, and i capture all of england + scotland + ireland + wales, i then capture all front ports in France, yet i can only manage to have an eoconmy to have 3 armies while i'm suppose to have these 3 armies spread out in all of france trying to defend my cities from 4 different fronts with just 3 armies,

So please help me, i just dont get the economy in this game, i assumed the more cities you capture the more money you get, yet here i am..

I mean, i sit and fight like hell in france, i capture 1 city on the left front, then a group attacks my city behind me with a fleet so i have to move that army on the left front back to that city, then on my right front i get attacked by 2 different factions, i have to keep attacking their cities close to me then also capture back cities they capture since i cant afford to have more then 3 armies, and my last army have to fight on the upper part of france near netherlands to keep enemeis there from coming, so wtf am i gonna do?

I try to build mines and all that ♥♥♥♥ in england, but i just am stuck at 1 k income with my 3 armies working overtime like hell fighting everything,

[Teh_Diplomat]

Attila, and its expansions require that your convert building types in order to achieve any 'harmonious balance'. This is also true for Age of Charlemagne. Gone are the days of simply deciding what to build based on population size (Rome TW, Medieval 2), you now have a limited (4 or 6) building slots, and must ensure they:

- Maintain adequate Pubic Order.
- Not incur any Squalor (seasons, and seasonal events are quite enough)
- Provide sufficient food (lest ye famine)
- Ensure enough profit to Construct and/or Maintain your Armies.
- Save enough, or have a treasury to fund secondary expenses (agents, mercenaries, governors, etc.)

For instance, in order to get province-wide sanitation (or just sanition), you will require a specific main building type for the Provincial Capital (I believe it the church, for Mercia). Without this building, you're hindered in most of your development into higher tier buildings, and thus more profit.


Because of this, it can cause issues, mid to late game, as you spend many turns, finally concocting the best array of buildings to serve your needs.

[Ruswarr]

While I can't give you specific tips for Mercia and Charlemange campaign in general I can give some general tips, but it sounds that you merely overestimated your ability to conquest and hold the land.

So you're invading France. The question is - do you need to do it right now? I feel that in Attila in general it is quite easy to overextend and things will spiral out of control. Sure, you can get more land, but always, always ask yourself a question - can you maintain and defend it after the conquest, or is it worth potential risks? 1k income per turn is very much NOT sufficient if you have more than one province, your economy just won't catch up if you try and continue your conquests even if we don't account for enemies fighting back.

British Isles are also a quite nice place to defend so you might want to develop you cities there before expanding onto mainland and you probably won't need three armies in that case. A developed province is worth more than an undeveloped one, quantity doesn't exactly equal quality. Developed provinces -> more income -> more further investment/more troops/better quality troops. You definitely don't want your provinces to starve as this causes income penalty and PO penalty. It is also sometimes profitable to let a province rebel and crush the rebels in next turn or two for some PO boost, just don't let them actually take your cities.

[Haddon]

Make sure your populations are ALL at or near 100% public order. This will increase how much each place makes, and will allow you to put taxes higher. Also, trade is a really big thing; open trade with a lot of factions, all over the map if possible. Send out fleets to find new trade routes. In particular in your campaign, try to befriend Charlemagne or the Byzantines/Latins/Lombards to get a good chunk o trade.

And, as someone else said, sounds like you are over-extended. I would suggest backing off and holding only Normandy, Brittany on the French coast, and worry about building up your economy in Britain before marching across the Channel. Especially if you piss off the Spanish or Charlemagne, as both of those factions can REALLY hurt as the Brits (who don't have good ways without mods to counter the Frankish cavalry).

[birrebarre]

Originally posted by Teh_Diplomat:

Attila, and its expansions require that your convert building types in order to achieve any 'harmonious balance'. This is also true for Age of Charlemagne. Gone are the days of simply deciding what to build based on population size (Rome TW, Medieval 2), you now have a limited (4 or 6) building slots, and must ensure they:

- Maintain adequate Pubic Order.
- Not incur any Squalor (seasons, and seasonal events are quite enough)
- Provide sufficient food (lest ye famine)
- Ensure enough profit to Construct and/or Maintain your Armies.
- Save enough, or have a treasury to fund secondary expenses (agents, mercenaries, governors, etc.)

For instance, in order to get province-wide sanitation (or just sanition), you will require a specific main building type for the Provincial Capital (I believe it the church, for Mercia). Without this building, you're hindered in most of your development into higher tier buildings, and thus more profit.


Because of this, it can cause issues, mid to late game, as you spend many turns, finally concocting the best array of buildings to serve your needs.

Hmm.. I think then maybe i'm too used to M2 TW ways of buildings working, i still haven't found where i see like ''squalor'' information about a city, all i see is that happy or angry face under the city name, but yeah, i will try and do those points you wrote, it's so hard to get used to Atilla compared to the other TW's before,

Originally posted by Ruswarr:

While I can't give you specific tips for Mercia and Charlemange campaign in general I can give some general tips, but it sounds that you merely overestimated your ability to conquest and hold the land.

So you're invading France. The question is - do you need to do it right now? I feel that in Attila in general it is quite easy to overextend and things will spiral out of control. Sure, you can get more land, but always, always ask yourself a question - can you maintain and defend it after the conquest, or is it worth potential risks? 1k income per turn is very much NOT sufficient if you have more than one province, your economy just won't catch up if you try and continue your conquests even if we don't account for enemies fighting back.

British Isles are also a quite nice place to defend so you might want to develop you cities there before expanding onto mainland and you probably won't need three armies in that case. A developed province is worth more than an undeveloped one, quantity doesn't exactly equal quality. Developed provinces -> more income -> more further investment/more troops/better quality troops. You definitely don't want your provinces to starve as this causes income penalty and PO penalty. It is also sometimes profitable to let a province rebel and crush the rebels in next turn or two for some PO boost, just don't let them actually take your cities.

Well, i have conquered all of the Brittish Isles, so i dont really know what too do next, i was thinking of Denmark but eventually someone would attack me there also like Charlemange, so i decied ♥♥♥♥ it, imma attack him instead, he refuses to do any kind of trade of alliance with me and hes the closes one too me, but yeah your right, i probably captured more then i should have, i hate how rebels work in this game, how these seperatis spawn behind my armies and just instant capture of one my cities that i have no army in, yeah your right, i should have sticked to parts of on the french coast instead of going further in, i just created a big mess for myself with never ending armies attacking, i have like all buildings maxed out, but honestly i havent done the best job of checking what i built, i just clicked on the chepeast possible thing,

Originally posted by Haddon:

Make sure your populations are ALL at or near 100% public order. This will increase how much each place makes, and will allow you to put taxes higher. Also, trade is a really big thing; open trade with a lot of factions, all over the map if possible. Send out fleets to find new trade routes. In particular in your campaign, try to befriend Charlemagne or the Byzantines/Latins/Lombards to get a good chunk o trade.

And, as someone else said, sounds like you are over-extended. I would suggest backing off and holding only Normandy, Brittany on the French coast, and worry about building up your economy in Britain before marching across the Channel. Especially if you piss off the Spanish or Charlemagne, as both of those factions can REALLY hurt as the Brits (who don't have good ways without mods to counter the Frankish cavalry).

How do you see the exact public order % ? I havent found that in Atilla, how do you find new trade routes? I thought i just opened the diplomacy tab and select trade argmenet? I can do more then that? I could not do that, he refused to do anything with me even with me being Strengt Rank 2, so then i invaded him and i got strenght rank 1, yep your right, i should stick to the coast! yeah the army system is so different then M2 TW, something i gotta get used too!

Btw, i managed to ''finish'' the short campaign when i captured like 10 french towns + the whole of brittish isles, and i clicked '' conutine campaign '' do i still have a chance to contuine and how long can i keep playing if so?

[Ruswarr]

Originally posted by Voyager:

Hmm.. I think then maybe i'm too used to M2 TW ways of buildings working, i still haven't found where i see like ''squalor'' information about a city, all i see is that happy or angry face under the city name, but yeah, i will try and do those points you wrote, it's so hard to get used to Atilla compared to the other TW's before

Yeah Medieval 2 way of doing things should not be applied here.
You have very limited slots for buildings (max 5 for province capital and max 3 for non-capitals, if we exclude the actual city building chain) and you always need to plan accordingly. You can right-click on any building or click on a button left of the growth indicator to call the building browser and check what you can potentially build. Note that building chains, aside from trade resource ones, differ for a capital and non-capitals (don't really remember how english version refers to them, sorry).
Squalor can be checked by hovering over fountain-looking icon right over the building icons for a settlement. You can hover over for a detailed summary but its color is also an indicator - if it's green then it's OK, if it's red then you have more squalor than sanitation and there's a chance for a disease outbreak (indicated by a skull over fountain if outbreak happened).
The "angry face" also does not apply to a settlement but rather to a province.

Originally posted by Voyager:

Well, i have conquered all of the Brittish Isles, so i dont really know what too do next, i was thinking of Denmark but eventually someone would attack me there also like Charlemange, so i decied ♥♥♥♥ it, imma attack him instead, he refuses to do any kind of trade of alliance with me and hes the closes one too me, but yeah your right, i probably captured more then i should have, i hate how rebels work in this game, how these seperatis spawn behind my armies and just instant capture of one my cities that i have no army in, yeah your right, i should have sticked to parts of on the french coast instead of going further in, i just created a big mess for myself with never ending armies attacking, i have like all buildings maxed out, but honestly i havent done the best job of checking what i built, i just clicked on the chepeast possible thing

As I said, you need to develop. British Isles in Charlemagne campaign are about, like, 5 or 6 provinces? That's more than enough for a start. You want to dedicate a province for military recruitment - Wales has iron for some recruitment cost reduction, but Wessex is right on your further warpath and is a probable vector of attacks for your enemies. Don't forget about fleet - you are surrounded by water so you should not exclude a probability of sea-based attacks. Develop your northern provinces for max income (can't give you an exact building guide here, sorry).
You should also mind the "war weariness" mechanic in AoC campaign - the more you stay in war, the more your people don't like it and you'll suffer penalties. So don't wage mindless wars.
Rebels work fine. They only spawn if you have negative hunded public order in that particular province. You should account for that in the newly conquered provinces. If it happens in your backside provinces - you have somehow seriously screwed your PO management there.
And as both you and I have already said, you really need to check what you want to build.

Originally posted by Voyager:

Btw, i managed to ''finish'' the short campaign when i captured like 10 french towns + the whole of brittish isles, and i clicked '' conutine campaign '' do i still have a chance to contuine and how long can i keep playing if so?

You can check your victory conditions tab to, check, well, your further victory conditions. There's still long campaign victory and domination in AoC but personally I feel that the victory conditions in general are ambiguous at best in TW. I have 100+ hours in Attila and I haven't actually finished a campaign (getting close to it though). I have 660 hours in Shogun 2 and I finished maybe dozen of campaigns.

Originally posted by Voyager:

How do you see the exact public order % ? I havent found that in Atilla, how do you find new trade routes? I thought i just opened the diplomacy tab and select trade argmenet? I can do more then that? I could not do that, he refused to do anything with me even with me being Strengt Rank 2, so then i invaded him and i got strenght rank 1, yep your right, i should stick to the coast! yeah the army system is so different then M2 TW, something i gotta get used too!

For that you hover over the "happy or angry face" and it will provide you with detalization. It also has expected numbers right next to it.
For trade routes you want a land or sea connection, and IIRC you actually need a connection to your AND other faction's capital, so if you conquer British Isles as Mercia, then go straight for Rome - you wont be able to trade with your Italian neighbors. There should also be an indicator for possibility of trade in the diplomacy screen. TBH I wouldn't bother with trade too much, AI can be extremely unwilling to trade if you don't have really good relationships.
Army system is not that hard to learn as it's basically "an army can only be lead by a general". You can also recruit troops while you are just staying in provincial borders and not necessarily in a settlement.

[Haddon]

Go into settlement details, it will have exact public order. Trade routes just require having enough ports, and knowing where the person you are trying to trade with is. You need to discover a faction before you can trade with them, and there are likely to be a few you haven't found yet.

[Doe_36]

i just establish a base of around 5 or 6 cities and i dont worry about public order its overated just pump that money out , rebel armys are good training for my troops , i hardy ever occupy i prefer to sack my enmies citys i feel my enemys enemys seem to like me more for it and besides my soldiers after a big siege like to have good times with the enemys women .

[restarter]

be thankful you can field that many troops. in reality, in "england" at this time you were lucky to muster 1000-2000 troops to march under your banner for a few months. but of course we are talking total war here so i understand i am being a pedant. Im glad that total war is taking a more realistic approach to military numbers post Rome.

[birrebarre]

Thank you guys for your replies, i just need to vent again,

So i started a new campaign, i choose to play the faction that plays it out on the Spanish Peninsula,

Before i contine, from my time of playing Total War, i have learned that if you are a bit aggresive in the beginning of a campaign and try to capture settlements as fast as you can, you have a bigger chance of winning, if i dont do that, i notice that the enemys do that and then they get so big and have so much money they crush me like an ant,

So i did this with playing this faction now, i used that army that you have in the beginning to capture those abaondnend settlmenets, and at the same time i build 2 fishing ports in my cities at the north coast to get food because i have noticed that if i dont have extra food income i will go banktrupt on food and then my armies will get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over,

So i capture 1 abandoned settlement, and i try to capture a second one with my other small army that im trying to built up, but then i need 5 k money for some reason, and meanwhile i try to get trade agrements, with other factions, but then that red islam faction decides to go to war against me, and i try to get other factions to join me against them, no one wants to join, then all the suddenly, a rebelleion, and if move my big army from that abandoned settlement i took the red islam army will attack it that was standing really close to me, so meanwhile a 2 giant armys of speretists rises in 5 secnds and kills my upper smaller army, and then they go rampage and take all my cities in 5 seconds and i cant even build up a defensive army because each turn they move to the next city and i can only build 2 units at onces and my money is draining like helll...

So i say ♥♥♥♥ it, i move my giant army up and i raze settlement those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rebels took and kill them all, then when i reach my old settlements they capture my army in 1 turn loses all 50% of the units because i assume i ran out of money to fund them? And when i move to my first old city a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 20/20 rebel army comes up from nowhere.....

So wtf am i suppose to do, i cant expand because then i get rebels that razes armies faster then the german army did in WW2.....

Am i so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ horrible in this game ??

I mean the faction says Easy to play and i have it on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ easy yet this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just keeps happening, and why the ♥♥♥♥ have CA decided to block 90% of the factions in age of charlemange?

or is it like medieval 2 total war where you can play the factions if you kill them in the campaign?

What am i suppose to do guys... I think i need to capture this on video so you guys can see how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ i am at this game... I love total war and i have played all of them expect shogun 2 total war but this is just ridlicous.. .

Sorry for ♥♥♥♥♥♥ english, i just need to vent...

[Ruswarr]

You do not "capture" abandoned settlements, you "re-colonize" them, therefore you need the money, presumably to start restoring stuff. IIRC the more troops you have in recolonizing army the lower the price is.
Again, rebels NEVER appear suddenly. They will always appear if you hit minus hundred public order. Their armies will also grow with each turn so you don't want to leave them alone for too long. Also, your general/army can defect due to bad loyalty or lack of integrity and create separatist faction too.
Recolonizing was your mistake. Recolonized settlements take A LONG time before they will give you something back. And yeah, Attila is usually regarded as one of the harder TW games, so no shame in losing. Its mechanics can also be overwhelming at first as there are a lot and it's easy to screw yourself over. Once you start understanding them it gets easier.
Also, on razing. It's a double edged sword. On one side, it does completely deprive enemy of the settlement and can kinda create a buffer, but if you want that settlement later in the future - you should think twice as as I said, it will take a long time to rebuild it.
And no, you do no unlock factions by defeating them.

[restarter]

I love the new approach. Not being able to steam roll the whole map with 30 doom stacks makes it more tactical and realistic. I remember, in MTW2, playing as England and sitting over in the Holy land, fully conquered, with 10-15 top teir armies and swatting the Mongols like they never existed. Sure it was fun but soooo unrealistic. Once i started playing paradox games and learning a bit about medieval military history i realized that taking land and keeping a standing army is not a 1 turn operation. logistics are a ♥♥♥♥♥, and that should be reflected in the game.

[birrebarre]

Thank you guys for your replies, i'm sorry if it came out that way, but i'm not trying to blame the game, i wanna learn to be better, so please don't think that i'm whining at the game, i just wanna learn how to master the game :-)

[Ruswarr]

It's fine. I can take some time to adjust and learn the mechanics.
And Attila CAN actually throw some BS at you - like endless Hun stacks (with 100% upkeep reduction and ability to disable replenishment for other factions in provicnes where a horde is present) and climate changes that affect every province and in the end make every province infertile - in the Grand Campaign. Not bad ideas per se but their implementation is not the best; thankfully, there are mods.