CDR too strong

[Chris]

The way it is now you cann add your cooldownreduction up to 100% - meaning your cd's are zero and you can spam any ability as you please. This is obviously way too strong and boring having a 100% cdr-mate in your party.
I suggest changing it from being added to being multiplied - just like in any other rpg. Meaning3 20% cdr items no longer add up to 60% cdr but to 1 - (0,8 * 0,8 * 0,8) = 48,8%
This could add a hardcap to cooldownreduction. As far as i know 18% is the max roll on cdr. Using it on 8 item slots would result in a hardcap of 1 - (0,82 ^ 8) = 81,4% wich is strong enough but not overpowered.

[SpiralRazor]

Originally posted by Wegdabinarzt:

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Its not too strong, and this isnt a competitive MMO in any case. Stop your baseless crying.

CDR is the ONLY thing that makes wizards worth playing at all.

a) Spells being too weak is not the issue here. There are tons of smarter ways to solve that problem other than having zero cooldowns.
b) Noone even mentioned removing CDR... its about altering how its calculated.
c) Why would you bother wrighting some simple minded "Stop your baseless crying"-comment? Put some thought into it and maybe address other problems if you are interested in having this game feel more dnd-ish.

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Because of the way the mechanics are currently work and the weak damage on "spells", nothing is better then a 5 attacks per round figher with a threat range of 7 +vorpal, or a rogue with max backstab and increased action speed.

Actually not true. Max radiant damage paladins outdamage them. But well, who cares.

im completely not interested in having it feel more DnD-ish...the entire engine would have to be reworked and thats not going to happen.

The Devs know the spells for all classes are ultra weak, and they said a fix was going to come shortly after release.

Until then the CDR must remain as it is.

[SpiralRazor]

Originally posted by Shrapnel:

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Furthermore, most of the dedicated spell casting classes in the game are super weak without CDR..including all kinds of wizards, clerics and warden style rangers.

Because of the way the mechanics are currently work and the weak damage on "spells", nothing is better then a 5 attacks per round figher with a threat range of 7 +vorpal, or a rogue with max backstab and increased action speed.

this doesnt justify cdr overstack

It certainly does because youre not able, apparently, to understand that the game isnt competitive. No one else is going to care what youre doing with your character..unless your in a DM'd module and then i can guarantee that if they want to depower you, they will.

[SpiralRazor]

Originally posted by Wegdabinarzt:

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Its not too strong, and this isnt a competitive MMO in any case. Stop your baseless crying.

CDR is the ONLY thing that makes wizards worth playing at all.

a) Spells being too weak is not the issue here. There are tons of smarter ways to solve that problem other than having zero cooldowns.
b) Noone even mentioned removing CDR... its about altering how its calculated.
c) Why would you bother wrighting some simple minded "Stop your baseless crying"-comment? Put some thought into it and maybe address other problems if you are interested in having this game feel more dnd-ish.

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Because of the way the mechanics are currently work and the weak damage on "spells", nothing is better then a 5 attacks per round figher with a threat range of 7 +vorpal, or a rogue with max backstab and increased action speed.

Actually not true. Max radiant damage paladins outdamage them. But well, who cares.

I havent seen anyone have a zero cooldown...ive got 74 percent i think on my lvl 17 mage and Meteor Storm is still on a pretty hefty CD...

[GB EX]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

I havent seen anyone have a zero cooldown...ive got 74 percent i think on my lvl 17 mage and Meteor Storm is still on a pretty hefty CD...

Apparently, it is quite possible, and I wouldn't doubt it, but it requires very close-to-perfect gear and much farming.

[MoNKeZi]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Originally posted by Doomcube:

All stacking makes abilities over powered in this game. Whether it's CDR or damage types.

I'm currently playing a Shield Dwarf Wizard in heavy armor, dual wielding battle axes with Elemental Weapon, Magic Weapon and Mage Armor. The plan is to get Haste and Stoneskin and stack force damage items to see how ridiculously uber I can be in melee. It wont be as powerful as a Paladin stacking radiant damage, but it'll be pretty close if I can get the gear.

Dude...nothing is over powered...who cares what you stack??? The games not PVP or competititve in any way, and a DM who wants to knock you down a peg can and will.

Calm down "dude", I'm not calling for changes, I'm just saying that min-maxing is well rewarded if you're into that kind of thing.

i quite enjoy wading into melee with a level 6 Dwarf wizard with 126 hit points and 26 armor class while doing 4-20 slashing + 7-16 force damage with a main hand and an off-hand. I haven't even started stacking force damage yet.

One can entertain a discussion without committing to one side or the other. Chill the ♥♥♥♥ out.

[Chris]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

I havent seen anyone have a zero cooldown...ive got 74 percent i think on my lvl 17 mage and Meteor Storm is still on a pretty hefty CD...

I completely agree with that. Classes that rely on Spells to deal damage are underpowered. But again, this is not about mages - there are other solutions to spells being weak. Even with 100% cdr your mage will be weak compared to other classes. A ranger eg can keep up 150% speed, 100% parry, spam his heal, have 100% crit thx to invis, mark every target - and still play your vorpal build. This game promised to be party-based - so if you dont need your cleric to heal or your mage to control it feels kinda game breaking to me. And in no way dnd-ish.
I do understand that there are people enjoying solo rushing. Its not that i dont want them to enjoy this game - but for me and those who like dnd/party based games and hard combats this is no fun.
Maybe they could add an actual hard mode that you really need a party for - like mob-damage *2, mob health *5, bosshealth *20 or more (a 5 second bossfight on hardest settings is neither fun nor challenge), mobs having WAY higher bonus on ac/attack/skill rolls and saving throws and increased loot rarity for less frustrating end game farming. That would feel like a challenge - but is not the reason i made this thread.

[Char Aznable]

Originally posted by Doomcube:

All stacking makes abilities over powered in this game. Whether it's CDR or damage types.

I'm currently playing a Shield Dwarf Wizard in heavy armor, dual wielding battle axes with Elemental Weapon, Magic Weapon and Mage Armor. The plan is to get Haste and Stoneskin and stack force damage items to see how ridiculously uber I can be in melee. It wont be as powerful as a Paladin stacking radiant damage, but it'll be pretty close if I can get the gear.

I am playing a Sun Elf Wizard in Heavy Armor and dual wielding swords although I'm thinking of only using one just to stay true to the Pen and Paper character he is based on. Yeah I pretty much used the same build only instead of stacking Force buffs I stacked enough slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing resistance so I have 100% or more of each. And I'm using a Vorpal Sword that has a chance to instantly kill on a crit and a chance to restrain on hit. Even without the stone skin my guy is tearing up anyone who gets in his way. I imagine with damage buffs it would be really effective, but I just like being able to restrain enemies with melee attacks..

[SpiralRazor]

Originally posted by Wegdabinarzt:

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

I havent seen anyone have a zero cooldown...ive got 74 percent i think on my lvl 17 mage and Meteor Storm is still on a pretty hefty CD...

I completely agree with that. Classes that rely on Spells to deal damage are underpowered. But again, this is not about mages - there are other solutions to spells being weak. Even with 100% cdr your mage will be weak compared to other classes. A ranger eg can keep up 150% speed, 100% parry, spam his heal, have 100% crit thx to invis, mark every target - and still play your vorpal build. This game promised to be party-based - so if you dont need your cleric to heal or your mage to control it feels kinda game breaking to me. And in no way dnd-ish.
I do understand that there are people enjoying solo rushing. Its not that i dont want them to enjoy this game - but for me and those who like dnd/party based games and hard combats this is no fun.
Maybe they could add an actual hard mode that you really need a party for - like mob-damage *2, mob health *5, bosshealth *20 or more (a 5 second bossfight on hardest settings is neither fun nor challenge), mobs having WAY higher bonus on ac/attack/skill rolls and saving throws and increased loot rarity for less frustrating end game farming. That would feel like a challenge - but is not the reason i made this thread.

Well..i think having a challenge mode would be a great idea...but its only going to highlight the issue that Spells and most Talents for other classes scale EXTREMELY poorly. I can foresee something like this "Oh, you brought a mage to our challenge content?" - Kicked.

[SpiralRazor]

Try playing a Warden style ranged and using there spells....almost completely useless compared to the auto attack damage. And lets not even get into, "i only have a wolf pet and it dies constantly". At least in Pillars if your pet dies, it comes back at the end of combat.

[Chris]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Well..i think having a challenge mode would be a great idea...but its only going to highlight the issue that Spells and most Talents for other classes scale EXTREMELY poorly. I can foresee something like this "Oh, you brought a mage to our challenge content?" - Kicked.

I love to see mages in my party. They may not be number 1 damage dealer (except magic missile builds) but their crowd control is incredible. If there was hard content that you can only clear with a proper lineup a mage would be the first i'ld invite. Slow eg literally wins every fight since it covers a large area and almost disables the enemies without any type of enemy being immune to it.

[SpiralRazor]

The problem with that is then every wizard will be a control wizard...there will be no diversity of builds because EVERYONE will gravitate towards CC..which is the only viable thing now.

It reminds me of Neverwinter Online, where every "wizard" was a control wizard with Ice.

[Quasimodo]

I must confess if i joined a co-op game or someone joined mine and I never really got to do anything much because someone had 100% CDR and slaughtered everything without needing my input i would find it pretty damn boring (and probably annoying)

Single player, fine, do whatever you like it doesn't affect anyone else, but when in a game with others, things like this need to have some form of cap or suffer from diminishing returns or something at some point.
Just because it's not PvP it should be sensibly balanced and not to OP for purposes of co-op play. When playing co-operatively you should be sparing a thought for your companions feelings and fun factor as well as your own.

When using a system that revolves around cooldowns i don't think you should ever be able to totally negate them. If some classes/builds are significantly weaker because they cannot be used enough or aren't effective enough at that rate of use fix it without 'breaking' the system.
Buff them up, give them more abilties, increase there potency or decrease the underpowered abilties base cooldowns, but don't allow the mechanic as a whole to be totally overidden and ignored.

[MoNKeZi]

Originally posted by Wegdabinarzt:

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

Well..i think having a challenge mode would be a great idea...but its only going to highlight the issue that Spells and most Talents for other classes scale EXTREMELY poorly. I can foresee something like this "Oh, you brought a mage to our challenge content?" - Kicked.

I love to see mages in my party. They may not be number 1 damage dealer (except magic missile builds) but their crowd control is incredible. If there was hard content that you can only clear with a proper lineup a mage would be the first i'ld invite. Slow eg literally wins every fight since it covers a large area and almost disables the enemies without any type of enemy being immune to it.

Trickster Rogue can cast a majority of those control spells though. Sleep, Confusion and Hold Monster can all be utilised through the Trickster skill tree, leaving only Stinking cloud and a stun chance through lightning skill choices.

Originally posted by Quasimodo:

I must confess if i joined a co-op game or someone joined mine and I never really got to do anything much because someone had 100% CDR and slaughtered everything without needing my input i would find it pretty damn boring (and probably annoying)

If I was hosting a game and someone with 100% CDR joined and nuked everything in sight before I got into melee I would not hesitate to kick them.

I have nothing against toying around with min-maxing solo or if it is the host of a coop/mp game that wants to do it, but I would not tolerate it in my game and I would consider it rude to join someone elses game with a power build unless it was agreed upon first.

[robomagon]

Originally posted by Doomcube:

Originally posted by Wegdabinarzt:

I love to see mages in my party. They may not be number 1 damage dealer (except magic missile builds) but their crowd control is incredible. If there was hard content that you can only clear with a proper lineup a mage would be the first i'ld invite. Slow eg literally wins every fight since it covers a large area and almost disables the enemies without any type of enemy being immune to it.

Trickster Rogue can cast a majority of those control spells though. Sleep, Confusion and Hold Monster can all be utilised through the Trickster skill tree, leaving only Stinking cloud and a stun chance through lightning skill choices.

Originally posted by Quasimodo:

I must confess if i joined a co-op game or someone joined mine and I never really got to do anything much because someone had 100% CDR and slaughtered everything without needing my input i would find it pretty damn boring (and probably annoying)

If I was hosting a game and someone with 100% CDR joined and nuked everything in sight before I got into melee I would not hesitate to kick them.

I have nothing against toying around with min-maxing solo or if it is the host of a coop/mp game that wants to do it, but I would not tolerate it in my game and I would consider it rude to join someone elses game with a power build unless it was agreed upon first.

Have to disagree with you here. Right now CDR is in the game working as intended. It's not a bug or an exploit. If you want to play with house rules where CDR isn't allowed, then that is what needs to be agreed upon first. I would consider it extremely rude to kick someone for playing the game as intended, unless you specifically put "No CDR" in the session name.

[Warlawk]

Originally posted by SpiralRazor:

I havent seen anyone have a zero cooldown...ive got 74 percent i think on my lvl 17 mage and Meteor Storm is still on a pretty hefty CD...

15 each ring
15 helm
15 gloves
16 armor
18 cloak
12 boots (unique loot from the campaign)

Everything but the boots is random loot and can be found as low as green quality. I believe armor can go up to 18% but I've never seen it. Fairly positive that rings, helm and gloves cannot go above 15%.

If you don't like CDR, don't use it. As a host you can kick people who do not game in your same chosen style so the impact is minimal. It's really the only viable way to play a caster right now. If they do a good job of actually fixing casters to be viable without it I would not have an issue seeing it removed.

Bottom line, there's no competition here so it doesn't hurt anything to have it included in the game. I played through the campaign with a fighter straight legit, no farming or shopping, just the loot in the game. It was a lot of fun. I'm playing through the campaign now with a wizard who has 106% CDR and it's a lot of fun, just a very different play experience.

Please, enlighten me on how my 0CD wizard impacts your gaming in any way shape or form?

(Many of these comments are directed to many posters in the thread, and not directly at the person I quoted.)