Does wearing plate as a wizard give penalties to casting?

[Soth]

Does wearing plate as a wizard give penalties to casting? Just wondering if I buy the heavy armor ability as a wizard if it will ruin my spellcasting?

[robomagon]

引用自 Doomcube：

引用自 GB EX：

I largely agree with this statement.
Yes, I do not like the AC system, either, for two main reasons:
- Armor in real life doesn't last forever. It can only get hit so many times before it's penetrated. It also still hurts to get hit while in armor.
- AC melds evasion into its equation, but the term hardly evokes the idea of evading.

I agree. Most of us have been playing D&D for decades, but that doesn't mean we all agree that some mechanics are just plain silly and should have been updated years ago.

Armor should give a flat Damage Reduction vs various types of damage and have it's own set of hit points that deteriorate the armor as it gets damaged. I think I discovered that mechanic in the PnP Robotech game by Palladium about twenty years ago and I'm pretty sure the XCOM PC games use a similar mechanic, I think it's brilliant. There are some things D&D has changed that should never have changed and other things that should have changed long ago that Wizards have for some ridiculous reason decided is a core rule that should never change.

I like that kind of system as well, but a big problem with switching to that is HP. HP are stupid. But they're also very much tied to the AC system as a way to simulate a more experienced warrior being able to turn otherwise lethal blows into glancing hits and survive longer against more powerful foes, despite not actually being any more durable than a level 1 wizard with the same stats. There's a lot of meta and handwaving behind the AC and HP systems and changing one without the other doesn't work so well. So unless you want to change HP to "everyone has 10+CON bonus HP, period, regardless of class or level", then giving armor its own HP, relying on DR to mitigate damage, and using the current AC system only for dodging isn't really going to work in D&D.

[MoNKeZi]

引用自 robomagon：

引用自 Doomcube：

I agree. Most of us have been playing D&D for decades, but that doesn't mean we all agree that some mechanics are just plain silly and should have been updated years ago.

Armor should give a flat Damage Reduction vs various types of damage and have it's own set of hit points that deteriorate the armor as it gets damaged. I think I discovered that mechanic in the PnP Robotech game by Palladium about twenty years ago and I'm pretty sure the XCOM PC games use a similar mechanic, I think it's brilliant. There are some things D&D has changed that should never have changed and other things that should have changed long ago that Wizards have for some ridiculous reason decided is a core rule that should never change.

I like that kind of system as well, but a big problem with switching to that is HP. HP are stupid. But they're also very much tied to the AC system as a way to simulate a more experienced warrior being able to turn otherwise lethal blows into glancing hits and survive longer against more powerful foes, despite not actually being any more durable than a level 1 wizard with the same stats. There's a lot of meta and handwaving behind the AC and HP systems and changing one without the other doesn't work so well. So unless you want to change HP to "everyone has 10+CON bonus HP, period, regardless of class or level", then giving armor its own HP, relying on DR to mitigate damage, and using the current AC system only for dodging isn't really going to work in D&D.

I agree. If I were to implement such a thing as a house rule, the armor would have the durability (HP) and the player would have a system similar to the wound system from Star Wars d20, which was basically their constitution score iirc.

[Adeptus Stark]

引用自 Sand1972：

引用自 MasterKoren：

Just to spread the word, in 5E proper there is no casting penalty for using any armor. Arcane spell failure is gone completely.

Thats the dumbest thing Ive ever heard. Glad I never bought any version of D&D beyond 2nd edition.

引用自 Ordellus：

AD&D is dead.

Long live the COD generation.

Clerics of all additions could cast powerful spells and wear Full Plate without issue. While some Wizard spells can easily rival or beat out Cleric spells, what's the point?

If you're a Wizard and NEED to wear full plate, you're playing him wrong. ;)

I've played all additions expect 1st and 4th. Wizards, even in 5'ed, have no need for full plate.

No reason to whine about the fact that they can with only a movement penalty.

[Beldhan]

if they have added this rule, most people will have gone for a full evasion setup, mostly because it's better for avoid damage. with finesse weapon it's easy to get some nice dual and make a fighter that have high evasion while still maintaining an extreme output of damage.

but we are digressing about the armor vs the spellcasting. what people have fail to notice, that most of the caster have loose a lot of spell slot, by example a wizard in 3.5 have 4 9th spell against 1 in DD3.5

plus for a wizard to get the heavy armor profiency (what allows him to spellcast without malus), he need to sacrify a feat or bonus stats, what no wizard will do. especially since with shield+mage armor it's already possible to reach a very good AC. (mage armor change the natural ac of the person affected to a ac13+dex. shield is used as reaction skill for +5 ac for the turn, both are level 1 spell)

this is mostly for the cleric that some domain give heavy armor profiency for make them more resilient.

In DD5 (exept fighter) you get a ability score improvement at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 19th level.
but you must choose between a feat or a stats boost.

[robomagon]

引用自 Beldhan：

if they have added this rule, most people will have gone for a full evasion setup, mostly because it's better for avoid damage. with finesse weapon it's easy to get some nice dual and make a fighter that have high evasion while still maintaining an extreme output of damage.

but we are digressing about the armor vs the spellcasting. what people have fail to notice, that most of the caster have loose a lot of spell slot, by example a wizard in 3.5 have 4 9th spell against 1 in DD3.5

plus for a wizard to get the heavy armor profiency (what allows him to spellcast without malus), he need to sacrify a feat or bonus stats, what no wizard will do. especially since with shield+mage armor it's already possible to reach a very good AC. (mage armor change the natural ac of the person affected to a ac13+dex. shield is used as reaction skill for +5 ac for the turn, both are level 1 spell)

this is mostly for the cleric that some domain give heavy armor profiency for make them more resilient.

In DD5 (exept fighter) you get a ability score improvement at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 19th level.
but you must choose between a feat or a stats boost.

Woah there, I'm starting to get the impression that some people think that you still benefit from Mage Armor while wearing plate. That is NOT the case in 5E.

Mage Armor
1st-level abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a piece of cured leather)
Duration: 8 hours

You touch a willing creature who isn’t wearing armor, and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends. The target’s base AC becomes 13 + its Dexterity modifier. The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.

You can use a shield if you want, but not armor. Furthermore, anything that changes your base AC does NOT stack with anything else that changes your base AC.

[Shrapnel]

引用自 Stratos：

I don't think yours is just as valid, sorry. Your perspective relies entirely on a baseless assumption that magic is somehow so intellectually taxing that unlike real world sciences it's utterly impossible to perform when under the influence of delayed onset muscle soreness.

Casting magic is supposed to be mantally taxing, mana is the representation of it in video games and in book you see authors saying how drained a caster is after combat or performing a particularly large spell

[robomagon]

引用自 Shrapnel：

引用自 Stratos：

I don't think yours is just as valid, sorry. Your perspective relies entirely on a baseless assumption that magic is somehow so intellectually taxing that unlike real world sciences it's utterly impossible to perform when under the influence of delayed onset muscle soreness.

Casting magic is supposed to be mantally taxing, mana is the representation of it in video games and in book you see authors saying how drained a caster is after combat or performing a particularly large spell

I've also read books where it's also depicted as very physically taxing as well.

[Sand1972]

引用自 Stratos：

I don't think yours is just as valid, sorry. Your perspective relies entirely on a baseless assumption that magic is somehow so intellectually taxing that unlike real world sciences it's utterly impossible to perform when under the influence of delayed onset muscle soreness.

Thankfully no one cares what you think.
Wizards shouldnt wear armor. The End.

[Beldhan]

引用自 robomagon：

Woah there, I'm starting to get the impression that some people think that you still benefit from Mage Armor while wearing plate. That is NOT the case in 5E.

Mage Armor
1st-level abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a piece of cured leather)
Duration: 8 hours

You touch a willing creature who isn’t wearing armor, and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends. The target’s base AC becomes 13 + its Dexterity modifier. The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.

You can use a shield if you want, but not armor. Furthermore, anything that changes your base AC does NOT stack with anything else that changes your base AC.

did you read me well, i did say it was pointless for a wizard to wear plate armor and was quite taxing in term of feat and bonus point. i was giving the combo i do use for counter this.

by using mage armor with a 14 dex, you do have a +2 modifier, added to the mage armor buff, it lead you to 15, with shield you reach 20 for 1 turn. and this is if you don't have any magical robe or ring of protection... *shrugs*

the only caster class that will use heavy armor are cleric, the other have some skill for avoid the need of it.


ps: i'm talking of the spell

Shield
1st level adjuration
Casting time: 1 reaction, which you take when you are hit by an action or targeted by magic missile spell.
range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: 1 round

an invisible barrier of magical force appears and protect you. until the start of your next turn, you have +5 bonus AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from Magic Missile.


pss: since with the good combo of spell is pointless to wear armor, they didn't needed the system of fail for the spell casting anymore... or do you want your cleric to miss him healing word and such?

[Zero]

Just to point out to the people who say that spells aren't really that hard... Ever lose a level from swinging a sword at something in any version of D&D where the actual effect came from swinging the sword? Ever lose a level? Spells not only can cost mental energy, physical energy they can require experience or life (How many campaigns or settings involved people being sacrificed for power?)

Also, divine vs arcanes. Let's list a few points.

Arcane - Wider variety and significantly more show stopping spells. Able to use MORE spells in most cases. Also able to be incredible jerks. Able to write things such as "I prepared explosive runes". Squishy as a downside unless prestiged correctly. Also armor bonus was available through spells.

Divine - Many spells that rival or are shared (At least up through 3.5) but far more limited in options. Domains were required for a number of them as well as planning. Heavier armor, recovery and a more in combat play style was implenemented (And required) because heals for the most part were TOUCH based which most people tend to forget. TBH the most OP divine spell was wall of blades which you could turn any enclosed room with a blockable enterance into a blender.