What is the Deal with D&D Fandom?

[zafrod]

Okay, seriously. I have been playing D&D since Elf was a Class. I have played every version, and with the exception of that loathesome thing they called 4th Edition, I have worn the books down to nubs. I currently run two games of D&D 5E via Roll20 (which, if you're looking for real online P&P D&D, is where you should be looking). I effing love D&D.

That said, I find the level of D&D fan entitlement here not only mind-blowingly unecessary, but counterproductive. D&D is a game that people play in very different ways. From mindless dungeon hack-and-slash to high fantasy political roleplay, people get very different things out of it. Not every computer game that bears the name D&D is going to distill the wide-open P&P engine to exactly what you love most. And that's okay.

Honestly, this game FEELS like 5E hack-and-slash to me. It's obviously not a direct translation, bu the foundation is comfortably familiar. Proficiency bonuses, subclasses, scaling spells, simple characters early on becoming more complex as they level... It's not D&D 5E, but it's something similar boiled down to make for very fun fast-paced multiplayer combat. You may not agree. That's cool. It happens. But the anger over this is really problematic, and begins to explain why it's so damn hard to get people to develop D&D computer games.

Given the quality, breadth, immersion, innovation, and price-point of this game, there's just no way it deserves the heat it's getting here. If I were a developer considering working on a computer D&D iteration, the attitude here would turn me off in a second. Why bother trying to please people who can't be pleased? Angry, entitled grognards are not a very attractive demographic to target. As a fandom, we present ourselves as horrible people to make games for.

I hate feeling so isolated from an interest group I should be a part of. But D&D fandom has mystified this D&D fan for a long time, and a lot of the reaction to this game exemplifies why.

[YontEvnKnow]

I would be frustraited if I saw something i enjoyed being dumbed down to the console level. It doesnt stop it from being decent, but does stop it from being great.

[Humility]

This was just another moneygrab exploiting the name of a consistent and trusted franchise. File under FRAUD along with OMD Unchained & Dungeons II.

[Mahuloq]

Look the game isnt bad, but it sure isnt D&D.

[Mr Yaotubo]

I enjoyed 4th edition.

And overall people expected more of this game, based on miscommunications and hype.
They said it "was based on 5e", so people assumed it was a game that "was 5e".
That combined with already present expectation from 5e, DM Mode, classes and so on makes it tough to argue that the devs didnt atleast partly cause this themselfs by hyping it like they did.
Maybe not intentional, maybe it was an honest mistake... either way how it was caused it resulted in peoples getting hyped up for a game that just wasnt up to the quality people thought it would be.

Looking back they could have based it on 4e.
Its better adapted with "At-Will, Encounter, Dayli" abilties.
That makes it easier to balance while still retaining the D&D feel for classes.
4th edition actually had more class balance them most other edition from my perspective.
And to me Sword coast legends seems more like 4e then 5e with the cooldown mechanic.


About the 4e ability system and and its power scaling:
(yes even fighters had "Abilities")

At-WIll: Useable all the time (fire bolt)
Encounter: Once a fight (Fire ball)
Dayli: Useable once a day/rest (Meteor swarm)

[Martialis]

cleanfun の投稿を引用：

This was just another moneygrab exploiting the name of a consistent and trusted franchise. File under FRAUD along with OMD Unchained & Dungeons II.

QFT. I would also add Grand Ages Med and Heroes 7 to the list as well. All told, this has been a crappy, disappointing year for PC games.

[Spud]

Well the devs spent all summer teling us what a great D&D game was coming and look what they offered up..come on this game is a joke. They just trolled the D&D fanbase.

[Statue]

Mr Yaotubo の投稿を引用：

Maybe not intentional, maybe it was an honest mistake...

You're being too kind.

[MadAsgardian]

"Create your own epic adventure to share with friends"

...oh, but with randomly created dungeons and randomized, non-customizable loot.

[Martialis]

Mr Yaotubo の投稿を引用：

I enjoyed 4th edition.

And overall people expected more of this game, based on miscommunications and hype.
They said it "was based on 5e", so people assumed it was a game that "was 5e".
That combined with already present expectation from 5e, DM Mode, classes and so on makes it tough to argue that the devs didnt atleast partly cause this themselfs by hyping it like they did.
Maybe not intentional, maybe it was an honest mistake... either way how it was caused it resulted in peoples getting hyped up for a game that just wasnt up to the quality people thought it would be.

Looking back they could have based it on 4e.
Its better adapted with "At-Will, Encounter, Dayli" abilties.
That makes it easier to balance while still retaining the D&D feel for classes.
4th edition actually had more class balance them most other edition from my perspective.
And to me Sword coast legends seems more like 4e then 5e with the cooldown mechanic.


About the 4e ability system and and its power scaling:
(yes even fighters had "Abilities")

At-WIll: Useable all the time (fire bolt)
Encounter: Once a fight (Fire ball)
Dayli: Useable once a day/rest (Meteor swarm)

That's true. It could be that the problem is less with this game, and more with the latest editions of D&D. Classic D&D is no more. Both PnP and the cRPG versions of it have been changed to fit the WoW generation. In the process, I think they've lost their soul.

But what's the alternative? D:OS, Blackguards, WL2, Pillars, DA:O all missed the mark when they tried to create their own systems, or base it on other than D&D. Pathfinder is just a generic, bland, and wholly unoriginal copy of D&D3.5. Hackmaster would make an interesting cRPG, but the outfit is too small to even consider it.

[🥦Travar 🥦]

Thank you.
It's a shame, really, that the game sales will suffer because of the entitlement.

[zafrod]

I think it's a great game. It takes place in the Forgotten Realms. It uses standard D&D races and classes, all easily recognizable in stats and abilities from D&D traditions. In it, one delves into dungeons, defeating goblins, skeletons, oozes, and beholders while gaining experience and looking for treasure.

It is a great D&D game.

To me, when you say, "This game isn't D&D", it's like you're telling me that water isn't wet. It just doesn't make sense.

"This game does not capture the elements of D&D I most enjoy" makes sense. "This game isn't D&D"? Doesn't make sense.

How close a thing hews to its source material isn't the only basis of quality. Hell, if you play board games, look at Lords of Waterdeep vs. Castle Ravenloft. Playing Castle Ravenloft is a lot closer to playing D&D than playing Lords of Waterdeep is, but Lords of Waterdeep is hands down the better game.

Similarly, I would rather play this game with carpet tacks through my eyelids than play another Baldur's Gate rehash.

[texhnolyze]

Yeah, I guess the game will be received better if they didn't put D&D on the title.

[timmo4444]

OP, 70% of the compaliners were just itching to get their pitchforks out. And then you have some d&d purists who will refuse to touch the game because of the skill tree system (Even though the name "d&d" isnt in the title). And then you have some people like us, who will play it and enjoy it for what it is, and see that its a nice game. I think ultimately the game is going to do well with critic reviews, and in the long run that should help reduce all of this noise and bring more people to the game.
And heres something i think steam needs to consider in regards to refunds: make it so in order to write a steam review you have to play the game more than 2 hours.

[starkmaddness]

zafrod の投稿を引用：

I think it's a great game. It takes place in the Forgotten Realms. It uses standard D&D races and classes, all easily recognizable in stats and abilities from D&D traditions. In it, one delves into dungeons, defeating goblins, skeletons, oozes, and beholders while gaining experience and looking for treasure.

It is a great D&D game.

To me, when you say, "This game isn't D&D", it's like you're telling me that water isn't wet. It just doesn't make sense.

"This game does not capture the elements of D&D I most enjoy" makes sense. "This game isn't D&D"? Doesn't make sense.

How close a thing hews to its source material isn't the only basis of quality. Hell, if you play board games, look at Lords of Waterdeep vs. Castle Ravenloft. Playing Castle Ravenloft is a lot closer to playing D&D than playing Lords of Waterdeep is, but Lords of Waterdeep is hands down the better game.

Similarly, I would rather play this game with carpet tacks through my eyelids than play another Baldur's Gate rehash.

So, basically, this game has the elements of D&D that YOU enjoy, so everyone else should just stop complaining.

[tm0Lif3]

YontEvnKnow の投稿を引用：

I would be frustraited if I saw something i enjoyed being dumbed down to the console level. It doesnt stop it from being decent, but does stop it from being great.

QFT. This game was designed for consoles but they chose to announce it PC exclusives to get pre-orders. Then after few months, they announced for consoles. Not that i care about they releasing for consoles or not, but giving PC gamers console UI menus and actioney hack and slash is a sign of casualization.