Few notes on wizard

[Ilethas]

My experiences playing wizard

So I've been playing wizard for quite a while now and here are my thoughts and stuff I found during that time. As I played the story mode I noticed that on higher levels - close to 20 - my wizard felt not very much useful.

Larethar was contributing with his search/traps disarming/lockpicking and dealing quite nice damage. Jarhild was a very good tank and dealt a lot of damage due to additional attacks and passives. Illydia was taking care of healing the party. My main (moon elf wizard) on the other hand was not doing anything remarkable. I couldn't deal any amount of significant damage. I could fire all my offensive abilities and be stuck on cooldown till the end of the fight because by the time the spells refreshed, other party members would have killed all the enemies.

Well, one could say that the wizard contributes with his crowd control abilities. I'd agree if it hadn't been for the fact that other classes have these abilities as well - arcane trickster can do pretty much the same and warrior has his shouts. So in my opinion, as of now, a regular wizard without any polishing is not a very much useful party member - you'd be better off having a second warrior for instance.

Powerbuilding a wizard

After I finished the story mode I started tinkering with my wizard to see if I could make him powerful enough so that he could be at least comparable with other party members. It turned out that the answer is yes. However, it unfortunately required gathering specialised gear which means quite a bit of grinding. That's pretty much what I put on my wizard:

1. Practiced Cowl (purple item)
   
   • 15% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • Critical Range +3
     
2. Chain of Speed (orange item)
   
   • +25% Move Speed
     
   • +12 to all Force damage dealt
     
3. Cloak of Expertise (purple item)
   
   • 18% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • +15% Action Speed
     
4. Robes of Mastery (purple item)
   
   • 20% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • 75% Necrotic damage resistance
     
5. Gloves of Pressure (purple item)
   
   • 15% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • +9 to all Force damage dealt
     
6. Baldric of Quiet (purple item)
   
   • +12 to all Force damage dealt
     
   • 20% Thunder damage resistance
     
7. Dead Rat Elite's Boots (purple item)
   
   • +25% Move Speed
     
   • 18% Cooldown Reduction
     
8. Irresistible Grand Staff (purple item)
   
   • +4 to hit and damage
     
   • +12 to all Force damage dealt
     
9. Band of Defiance (blue item)
   
   • +7 to all Force damage dealt
     
   • 15% Cooldown Reduction
     
10. Screeching Loop (purple item)
    
    • +9 to all Thunder damage dealt
      
    • +9 to all Force damage dealt
      

All items above combined give 101% Cooldown Reduction, +50% Move Speed, +61 to Force damage and Critical Range +3. That means you can cast all abilities at will. Now on to the best part. Magic missiles spell attacks an enemy with 6 projectiles and deals force damage. With Magic Weapon III buff and then Elemental Weapon Force III - and possibly haste for 100% action speed bonus - cast on yourself you turn magic missiles into a cantrip that deals following damage:

• 2-6 Force damage (basic Magic Missiles damage)
  
• 61 Force damage because of items
  
• Inteligence modifier (let's assume +5)
  
• 3 from Magic Weapon III
  
• 4-13 + 61 + 3 from Elemental Weapon Force III which benefits from items and Magic Weapon III as well

That all adds up to 139-152 per missile which gives 834-912 damage in total. That's quite a lot.

As for abilities, that's what I chose:

• Magic Missile IV (hits like a truck)
  
• Mage Armor IV (for additional protection)
  
• Ray of Frost III (12-30 + 3 + 4-13 + 61 + 3 = 83-110 if buffed with Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon)
  
• Vampiric Touch IV
  
• Blinding Flash (just to unlock Dimension Door)
  
• Dimension Door III
  
• Elemental Weapon III
  
• Magic Weapon III
  
• Sleep II
  
• Confusion III
  
• Haste III
  
• Slow III
  
• Invisibility
  
• Stoneskin III
  
• Hold Monster II
  
• Search IV
  
• Armor Proficiency: Light

Thanks to 101% CDR you can keep all the buffs on yourself pretty much permanently. Noone will be able to get into meele with you due to unlimited dimension door. If you are hurt and have no potions, you can dimension door to an enemy, drain him with vampiric touch and dimension door into safety.

Final notes and thoughts

What's more, I've noticed that if you have Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon buff on yourself, all spells with negative effect on the enemy deal additional damage. That means you can deal 4-13 + 61 + 3 area of effect damage with spells like Sleep, Confusion, Slow or Charm. What's the point of buying fireball which would deal at most 2x more damage if you can deal comparable amount of damage and crowd control with Slow at the same time.

Well, in my opinion as of now wizard needs some balancing. He is either very bad or overmingly too powerful with the right gear and abilities. What do you think about it?

[Death2Gnomes]

As with any rpg game, gear plays a pivotal role in the suckiness of a particualr class. Base stats (and potential point driven stats) are balanced out first, usually all classes have similar beginning stats. after all that all gear designed for a class which gets looked over and adjusted in a series of passes, sometimes they miss an adjustment and have to patch it in at a later date, which means enjoy the OP now while you can.

So what your really asking for is a nerf on any gear a wizard can use that would make it OP to play. They cant nerf player skill, something you seem to have that makes your wizturd OP.

[Colosum]

I like playing with wizard class, but in this game really sucks. A fireball does no damage at all and the refreshing time for spells are eternals. With BG you could memorize 3 fireballs and use them in a fight, each dealing a good amount of damage. Here you can just use 1 and then no more for the fight is over (if your allies finished your enemies down, cause the wizard will certainly not).
This class need lowering refreshing times and empowering the damage it makes if not is really a trash class.

[Death2Gnomes]

when you say fireball really sucks, what are you basing your comparison on?

This isnt BG, this is DND ruleset, period. If your allies are taking down the mobs fast, then good you wont die so soon.

I really dont see your issue here. All I see is you whining over nothing important except to you.

Check the players handbook to make a decent refresh timer argument. So far you presented none, and your opinion is not a basis for any changes.

[Colosum]

sorry to see that my opinion bothers you so much, but as you said is just my opinion don't take it so seriously, have a nice day!

[toroks]

This build is cheesy :)

[Rexie77]

This is one of the best posts to be found in this forum on this or any other topic. You should consider doing more on other characters so that people having difficulty can have a build guide. IMHO, it's probably not overpowered for play outside of thingsa in the basic story line. But you could likely solo the entire quest without too many issues on a build like this.


Keep going!

[Dwarfurious]

It makes me wonder why they bothered to nerf the Vampiric weapons in the first place since broken equipment was clearly not an issue for them.

[Lhunfaen]

Do you remember where did you loot Cloak of Expertise ?

[Dorok]

Bigby's Grasping Hand cost one more SKP than Hold Monster but in term of pure power I think it's very efficient to have them both.

And Search isn't a good choice for Wizard, much better have a Rogue or Cleric develop it.

But I suppose it's a solo build, and you found some OP holes. More than Wizard OP it's more a accumulation of items that makes him OP.

For example a Cleric in a party can get sort of infinite healing and such party will be quite more powerful than your solo wizard.

It probably highlight the design weakness (but fun if you don't abuse of it) of items with cooldown reduction. A classical limit to such abuses is just setup a max, like max 80% or 60% cooldown reduction. That way it avoids become an OP hole.

EDIT: And some similar limit to damages increases could be used. I think it would be better to use such limits even if they are sometimes frustrating, because they'll allow keep the interesting equipment diversity.

[Adeptus Stark]

Originally posted by Death2Gnomes:

when you say fireball really sucks, what are you basing your comparison on?

This isnt BG, this is DND ruleset, period.

BG was D&D my friend. It was 2'ed not 5'ed.

However, just like 2'ed, in 5'ed PnP you can cast fireball as many times as you like in a battle as long as you have the available 3rd level slots. (Mechanics are a little different now but the end result is the same.)

Anyhow, Osky Re is very correct in the fact that he/she should be able to fire more than one fireball a combat in a 5'ed D&D game. The problem is this game took the asinine route of cooldowns from a crappy MMO style and screwed up spellcasters.

[Icyage]

4-13 + 61 + 3 from Elemental Weapon Force III which benefits from items and Magic Weapon III as well
That all adds up to 139-152 per missile


does it though? please explain what im not seeing ^^

[Effusion]

Originally posted by Icyage:

4-13 + 61 + 3 from Elemental Weapon Force III which benefits from items and Magic Weapon III as well
That all adds up to 139-152 per missile


does it though? please explain what im not seeing ^^

That is only the bonus from elemental weapon. Basically the trick is that the 61 force damage is being applied twice, once to the base damage of magic missile and once to the damage added by elemental weapon.

[Icyage]

oh sweet. it was never clear to me what elemental weapon text actually ment ^^

[MehZhure]

Originally posted by Santus:

My experiences playing wizard

So I've been playing wizard for quite a while now and here are my thoughts and stuff I found during that time. As I played the story mode I noticed that on higher levels - close to 20 - my wizard felt not very much useful.

Larethar was contributing with his search/traps disarming/lockpicking and dealing quite nice damage. Jarhild was a very good tank and dealt a lot of damage due to additional attacks and passives. Illydia was taking care of healing the party. My main (moon elf wizard) on the other hand was not doing anything remarkable. I couldn't deal any amount of significant damage. I could fire all my offensive abilities and be stuck on cooldown till the end of the fight because by the time the spells refreshed, other party members would have killed all the enemies.

Well, one could say that the wizard contributes with his crowd control abilities. I'd agree if it hadn't been for the fact that other classes have these abilities as well - arcane trickster can do pretty much the same and warrior has his shouts. So in my opinion, as of now, a regular wizard without any polishing is not a very much useful party member - you'd be better off having a second warrior for instance.

Powerbuilding a wizard

After I finished the story mode I started tinkering with my wizard to see if I could make him powerful enough so that he could be at least comparable with other party members. It turned out that the answer is yes. However, it unfortunately required gathering specialised gear which means quite a bit of grinding. That's pretty much what I put on my wizard:

1. Practiced Cowl (purple item)
   
   • 15% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • Critical Range +3
     
2. Chain of Speed (orange item)
   
   • +25% Move Speed
     
   • +12 to all Force damage dealt
     
3. Cloak of Expertise (purple item)
   
   • 18% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • +15% Action Speed
     
4. Robes of Mastery (purple item)
   
   • 20% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • 75% Necrotic damage resistance
     
5. Gloves of Pressure (purple item)
   
   • 15% Cooldown Reduction
     
   • +9 to all Force damage dealt
     
6. Baldric of Quiet (purple item)
   
   • +12 to all Force damage dealt
     
   • 20% Thunder damage resistance
     
7. Dead Rat Elite's Boots (purple item)
   
   • +25% Move Speed
     
   • 18% Cooldown Reduction
     
8. Irresistible Grand Staff (purple item)
   
   • +4 to hit and damage
     
   • +12 to all Force damage dealt
     
9. Band of Defiance (blue item)
   
   • +7 to all Force damage dealt
     
   • 15% Cooldown Reduction
     
10. Screeching Loop (purple item)
    
    • +9 to all Thunder damage dealt
      
    • +9 to all Force damage dealt
      

All items above combined give 101% Cooldown Reduction, +50% Move Speed, +61 to Force damage and Critical Range +3. That means you can cast all abilities at will. Now on to the best part. Magic missiles spell attacks an enemy with 6 projectiles and deals force damage. With Magic Weapon III buff and then Elemental Weapon Force III - and possibly haste for 100% action speed bonus - cast on yourself you turn magic missiles into a cantrip that deals following damage:

• 2-6 Force damage (basic Magic Missiles damage)
  
• 61 Force damage because of items
  
• Inteligence modifier (let's assume +5)
  
• 3 from Magic Weapon III
  
• 4-13 + 61 + 3 from Elemental Weapon Force III which benefits from items and Magic Weapon III as well

That all adds up to 139-152 per missile which gives 834-912 damage in total. That's quite a lot.

As for abilities, that's what I chose:

• Magic Missile IV (hits like a truck)
  
• Mage Armor IV (for additional protection)
  
• Ray of Frost III (12-30 + 3 + 4-13 + 61 + 3 = 83-110 if buffed with Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon)
  
• Vampiric Touch IV
  
• Blinding Flash (just to unlock Dimension Door)
  
• Dimension Door III
  
• Elemental Weapon III
  
• Magic Weapon III
  
• Sleep II
  
• Confusion III
  
• Haste III
  
• Slow III
  
• Invisibility
  
• Stoneskin III
  
• Hold Monster II
  
• Search IV
  
• Armor Proficiency: Light

Thanks to 101% CDR you can keep all the buffs on yourself pretty much permanently. Noone will be able to get into meele with you due to unlimited dimension door. If you are hurt and have no potions, you can dimension door to an enemy, drain him with vampiric touch and dimension door into safety.

Final notes and thoughts

What's more, I've noticed that if you have Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon buff on yourself, all spells with negative effect on the enemy deal additional damage. That means you can deal 4-13 + 61 + 3 area of effect damage with spells like Sleep, Confusion, Slow or Charm. What's the point of buying fireball which would deal at most 2x more damage if you can deal comparable amount of damage and crowd control with Slow at the same time.

Well, in my opinion as of now wizard needs some balancing. He is either very bad or overmingly too powerful with the right gear and abilities. What do you think about it?

I think this is an awesome build. There is zero chance a person can gain access to all these magic items early in the game (without cheating, obviously). Thus, we are left with a "normal" wizard progression of power. They start off stupidly weak...but, if you play your cards right, can eventually become the most powerful. It is sort of what "defines" the wizard class.

I don't see why anyone would have issues with this. It seems more like people are jealous that the wizard class is capable of making all the other classes their ♥♥♥♥♥. From what I know of D&D, this has always been the primary reason anyone ever plays a wizard. I don't ever recall anyone saying, "I want to play a wizard because they start out much weaker than all the other classes and just stay that way!" End-game wizards are supposed to be the character that can single handedly take on armies.

[Andronius]

Originally posted by Osky Re:

I like playing with wizard class, but in this game really sucks. A fireball does no damage at all and the refreshing time for spells are eternals. With BG you could memorize 3 fireballs and use them in a fight, each dealing a good amount of damage. Here you can just use 1 and then no more for the fight is over (if your allies finished your enemies down, cause the wizard will certainly not). This class need lowering refreshing times and empowering the damage it makes if not is really a trash class.

It's funny (and infuriating) to see how some people comment without even knowing how to play their character class, and without even READING the original post of the thread, which in this case explains precisely how lo lower casting times or cooldown reduction by 101%, among other things:

Originally posted by Santus:

My experiences playing wizard

After I finished the story mode I started tinkering with my wizard to see if I could make him powerful enough so that he could be at least comparable with other party members. It turned out that the answer is yes. (...) All items above combined give 101% Cooldown Reduction, +50% Move Speed, +61 to Force damage and Critical Range +3. That means you can cast all abilities at will....

Thank you @Death2Gnomes, you said exactly was I was thinking:

Originally posted by Death2Gnomes:

When you say fireball really sucks, what are you basing your comparison on? This isnt BG, this is DND ruleset, period. If your allies are taking down the mobs fast, then good you wont die so soon. I really dont see your issue here. All I see is you whining over nothing important except to you. Check the players handbook to make a decent refresh timer argument. So far you presented none, and your opinion is not a basis for any changes.

I totally agree with @MehZure:

Originally posted by MehZhure:

I think this is an awesome build. There is zero chance a person can gain access to all these magic items early in the game. Thus, we are left with a "normal" wizard progression of power: They start off stupidly weak ...but, if you play your cards right, can eventually become the most powerful. It is sort of what "defines" the wizard class. I don't see why anyone would have issues with this.