Why the mixed Reviews?

[Sleepy Snarf]

thats strange to see a gal gun game have mixed reviews.

[neto]

Mainly the chinese reviewbombing for some reason.

[ShadowJT3]

There are tons of reviews that complain about the fast travel. I don't mind it since the maps are so small compared to other metroidvanias. I just don't get why all these negative reviews, in all languages, hate this metroidvania for being a metroidvania. It's almost like they want everything to be handed to them on a silver platter so they don't have to explore, experiment, try different angels, or face any form of opposition of any kind. If they think this is bad, they should go play Super Metroid where there is no fast travel and you have to cross the map, which is huge, just to use the thing you just got to progress through the game. But It seems to boil down to either you like the game or you hate it with little in between. I like the game, but to each their own.

[dunceney]

I can understand the complain about backtracking, especially if you, like me, somehow missed Karon's soul and didn't have access to fast travel on the castle until lategame when I decided to explore older areas for completion.
Even worse if you also unlucky enough to miss majority of save points and warp points in an area, got pretty far, dies and had to run all the way back from another area (happened to me on the ice area)

[TraxCode]

The backtracking criticism is a bit petty overall, but to an extent, it is valid. The issue is not exactly the backtracking system, it's how it's tied to the inconsistency of the map layout. Teleporters (Karon) can appear in seemingly convenient or inconvenient locations as you explore.

The game definitely has other flaws added on that make the game deserve a mixed rating in my opinion, though.

[Shylaar]

Because it's not a very good game. I put up a review outlining why but in summary:
- The English localisation is bad.
- The audio mixing is bad and there are no individual volume controls to let players adjust it. This was already a problem in the previous game and they failed to address it a second time.
- There's a lack of meaningful power ups throughout the game.
- The world isn't laid out in a manner that's fun to traverse, and fast travel points are placed in largely useless locations with unnecessary travel time (a good example of this is the one closest to Dranis' domain being placed in a corner above it forcing you to wrap around several rooms to get to it).
- The in-game map doesn't offer much information, and is visually unclear. There are four separate locations on the map that you aren't able to swap between; you can only check the map for the area you're currently in (ie. the overworld or one of three dungeons).
- The way some locations connect on the map make little sense, and anything to do with water on the map is just a pain due to certain mechanics.
- The way Maxim's bones are distributed throughout the game and the lack of information the game gives you on area completion means that getting all bones for the true ending is an extremely arduous task of essentially checking over the entire game world a second time trying to find what you missed.
- Despite letting you explore areas out of order, some events and boss fights will simply be unavailable until you've seen the prerequisite story events, forcing additional backtracking later (again tied to the unhelpful fast travel points).
- The UI in regards to management of subweapons is woefully lacking, and crafting subweapons allows you to make completely broken items that destroy any semblance of game balance, while your basic attacks fall further and further behind in usefulness.
- Your main source of money is idle accumulation of gold at the fountain in the castle.
- Some elements reek of cut content, particularly the arena town in which there's nothing to do other than visit a shop.
- Online co-op isn't actually in the game yet. I don't remember them saying this would be a post-launch addition, but apparently it is. I'm pretty sure the store page had the online descriptor on it prior to launch, but SteamDB won't let me check that far back. (Edit: A post from another thread back in December notes that the store page did indeed have Online co-op listed in the features back then, and it was removed at some point after that.)
- They changed the KO mechanics from the first demo where if one maid died you'd have the chance to revive them with the other maid before getting a game over, whereas now if one maid dies you immediately get thrown back to the last save point with the other maid, and need to go back to the death location to revive the other one. Or you can just quit to the title screen, reload your save, and have them back in full health. Exploit aside, this was a really dumb change that removed a unique element of the pair-based gameplay in a game that's still not particularly difficult even on the hardest difficulty.

Originally posted by ShadowJT3:

If they think this is bad, they should go play Super Metroid where there is no fast travel and you have to cross the map, which is huge, just to use the thing you just got to progress through the game.

Super Metroid has a great map which was actually designed with consideration that the player would be repeatedly travelling through it, where with areas other than Maridia locations are generally designed as a matter of having central corridors and shafts that can be quickly moved through functioning as roots that the other paths branch out from, meaning you don't have to keep going through irrelevant side paths just to get to a destination. Comparatively, SOTD without any fast travel would be an absolute slog of running through convoluted environments over and over again which would only be salvaged by one particular power up that effectively trivialises all horizontal movement. Additionally, Super Metroid has a plethora of power ups to find throughout the game, continuously expanding your ability to explore the world in ways that come naturally to mind as locations have a variety of obstacles to deal with, as opposed to SOTD where you mostly keep getting the ability to jump additional times.

Originally posted by dunceney:

Even worse if you also unlucky enough to miss majority of save points and warp points in an area, got pretty far, dies and had to run all the way back from another area (happened to me on the ice area)

This was my experience in at least two regions of the game, where I had run around exploring roughly 80% of the region in question before I finally stumbled upon one save point or Karon point, and then quickly got the others while checking over the other paths I hadn't taken. At least some kind of guidance towards save or Karon points would have been nice.

[floating_clouds]

Originally posted by neto:

Mainly the chinese reviewbombing for some reason.

Whether in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, the reviews are mixed. It's just that Chinese accounts for over half of all language.

[永久に]

The only thing I have to complain is the save point and Karon location are all over the place. Would be better if they just be in the same place, and there is a save location at the entrance when you move to the new area.
Sometime I already explore like 70% of the current area but somehow can't find a single save point and when I died I got boot out very far.

I find the rest of the gameplay to be better the GGDP.

[ShadowJT3]

The game does have some shortcomings. I'll give that they should have added more abilities than just jump and dash 4 times each, but what they currently have is plenty of fun.
Shylaar, you don't seem to want to play the game, but rather just trying to check it off a list.

You get way more money by just defeating enemies, especially with the dash.

You complain about no power ups but then say the sub weapons are OP.

You say that Super Metroid has a fun map that is also quickly traversed (which I agree it does), but you complain about a smaller map I can easily cross in half the time without fast travel. And you saying the map is not fun to traverse with "useless locations" is your point of view. I rather enjoyed the entire map, and clearly so did others when you see people say they like it as a metroidvania.

You say you can't revive the other character immediately after being defeated, but that is a complete lie. Reviving the other maid the second after death is how I survived a few bosses.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with your map complaint. It is plenty clear. You can pull it up at anytime while moving and see what area you are in, or in the pause menu where you can look at the entire map.

The game isn't perfect by any means, but it's still fun. I just can't see much of what you, or anyone else is so unhappy with. Metroidvanias are meant to be traveled and explored. If you haven't found something on the map, it likely means you haven't explored enough.

[William Shakesman]

Grading it on the scale of the last Metroidvania this team did was Yohanevania and then before that ZX and ZX Advent, the design choices make more sense to me... well, sense is a strong word but I can see what creative process led to them. There is a certain joy in the game giving you black panther and 4 air jumps and 2 air dashes at the halfway mark. The awkward bone hump you have to get over to reach that where I was progression blocked and did not know the answer was just grind for one more level of bones threw me off, but moving fast has its own charm, especially with pixel art this good. The bosses get better later on too. And until you get black panther and can just ignore the enemies, the enemies are better designed and more engaging than the average time waster zakos a metroidvania will throw at you.

The complaints are all accurate though, much of the game feels schizophrenic. The hike from the throne is obscene even with black panther. Fast travel is totally bipolar. The translation dances between accurate and rewrite. But I still feel I had fun with it and got what I wanted out of it. It is strange to see Inti Creates only offer me 3 save files and no way of approaching the game in a more bite-sized manner like boss rush or NG+ though.

[Shylaar]

Going to ignore the opinion points.

Originally posted by ShadowJT3:

You get way more money by just defeating enemies, especially with the dash.

Grinding out money by dashing through rooms of enemies at the end of the game is not my idea of good money balance. It wasn't good when Bloodstained did it either.

You complain about no power ups but then say the sub weapons are OP.

Not the same thing, not a related complaint. Power ups are things like the multiple jumps and the demon punch, not subweapons, just like you wouldn't call every random weapon you pick up in Symphony of the Night a power up either. There are exactly three subweapon elements that have an impact in exploring the map (burn, freeze, and charge lances) and those I suppose could be considered power ups, though that also presents another issue of needing to have those traversal items equipped as you go around the map.

You say you can't revive the other character immediately after being defeated, but that is a complete lie. Reviving the other maid the second after death is how I survived a few bosses.

The power up you get to cancel a death by swapping after what would be a killing hit is a different mechanic. I am talking about what happens when a maid actually dies, which was changed between the first demo and the second demo and final game. Yes you can revive the other maid once you actually get to where they are but that's not how the game worked in the first demo.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with your map complaint. It is plenty clear. You can pull it up at anytime while moving and see what area you are in, or in the pause menu where you can look at the entire map.

From my review:

There's poor visual distinction between the walls of areas you have explored and the gaps of open rooms, and the map offers little information in general. Doors aren't marked on the map until you go through them, so if you miss one you won't know it's there by looking at the map. Chests are only marked on the map if you get close enough to them; just being in the same room as one isn't enough. NPCs aren't marked on the map either.

The game isn't perfect by any means, but it's still fun. I just can't see much of what you, or anyone else is so unhappy with. Metroidvanias are meant to be traveled and explored. If you haven't found something on the map, it likely means you haven't explored enough.

Anyone can make a game about exploring a map. What's important is whether doing so is actually fun. Given that the reviews are mixed, evidently many people see these things as issues.

[ShadowJT3]

If you look at the thickness/boldness of the lines, you will know if there is more to the map. And you get the information by exploring, the game shouldn't need to hold your hand.

I am talking about the revive that you have to shove the other character's soul back into them, not the skill you get later. This is something you always can do from the beginning of the game. It has always been there. So I say this again, your statement is a complete lie.

Again, the map not being fun is your opinion.

If there is a game that uses money or some form of currency, there will be some level of money grinding. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

And again, back to Super Metroid for this point. In Super Metroid, you are a dot on an invisible map with no way to know what is where unless you google it. In this game, they actually have icons to show you there is a chest in an area you were in. I'd call that a blessing. The only complaint about the map I agree with is not showing how many bones you have collected.

[Terry86]

Originally posted by ShadowJT3:

There are tons of reviews that complain about the fast travel. I don't mind it since the maps are so small compared to other metroidvanias. I just don't get why all these negative reviews, in all languages, hate this metroidvania for being a metroidvania. It's almost like they want everything to be handed to them on a silver platter so they don't have to explore, experiment, try different angels, or face any form of opposition of any kind. If they think this is bad, they should go play Super Metroid where there is no fast travel and you have to cross the map, which is huge, just to use the thing you just got to progress through the game. But It seems to boil down to either you like the game or you hate it with little in between. I like the game, but to each their own.

totally agree, i think this game has just the charm and smoothness to carry it if you know it can be frustrating at some point of exploration.

some like a 1 strip hall way like mirrior's of fate.. man that was boring.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by ShadowJT3:

If you look at the thickness/boldness of the lines, you will know if there is more to the map.

Yes... I know that. What I said is that it's visually indistinct and should be more clear than it is. Needing to zoom in and scrutinise the map to tell if I'm looking at an open room or a wall of a fully explored room shouldn't be an issue.

And you get the information by exploring, the game shouldn't need to hold your hand.

What are you arguing with here?

I am talking about the revive that you have to shove the other character's soul back into them, not the skill you get later. This is something you always can do from the beginning of the game. It has always been there. So I say this again, your statement is a complete lie.

I already explained it twice but you're not listening. In the first demo if a character died you didn't get sent back to the save point; you got swapped to the other character and kept going, and you could keep reviving the other character whenever they fell; you'd only get a game over if both characters fell at the same time.
You can see this in action here, at 40:20
https://youtu.be/niFESAKLZLQ?t=2420
That's not how the game works now, now if one character dies you immediately get sent back to your last used save point as the other character.

And again, back to Super Metroid for this point. In Super Metroid, you are a dot on an invisible map with no way to know what is where unless you google it.

Putting aside the notion of needing to look things up as your only recourse (obviously false), when praising Super Metroid I was talking about its level design, not the information provided on the map screen. In-game maps have thankfully gotten much better on the whole compared to 30 years ago, including in later Metroid games. But even in Super Metroid it was easier to tell if you were looking at a room that hadn't been fully mapped out yet or not.

[King Fossil]

It's probably just the fast travel. You can always fast travel to the castle but you need to unlock the NPC to fast travel anywhere else. I bet a bunch of people didn't get to the NPC and thought they'd need to walk back to places after going home to level, which would indeed suck.

Originally posted by ShadowJT3:

I am talking about the revive that you have to shove the other character's soul back into them, not the skill you get later. This is something you always can do from the beginning of the game. It has always been there. So I say this again, your statement is a complete lie.

Originally posted by Shylaar:

I already explained it twice but you're not listening. In the first demo if a character died you didn't get sent back to the save point; you got swapped to the other character and kept going, and you could keep reviving the other character whenever they fell; you'd only get a game over if both characters fell at the same time. That's not how the game works now, now if one character dies you immediately get sent back to your last used save point as the other character.

It changes depending on what difficulty you pick.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

It changes depending on what difficulty you pick.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm pretty sure hard mode in the first demo used the "keeps going" system, though.