DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE

DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE

Ralen 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 6:32
If you were Akira Toriyama, what would you retcon about DBZ?
Besides probably scrapping the Android, Cell, and Buu Sagas, I'd toss SSJ2, SSJ3, and make SSJ4 the new "SSJ2" as well as the final transformation.

Your move... Toriyama.
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正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 318 条留言
Patricia Hapon 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:17 
I would remove Goku, Piccolo would rule the world until he get killed by Radditz and Frieza decide to sell Earth.
Everyone would just kill each other and Beerus would just destroy everything, starting by the manga's author.
End of the story, nobody is happy but nobody care too, as they're all dead.
Hendumaica 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:19 
The main issues i have with transformations are what happened in the Buu Era.

They ve spent so much time explaining us how SSJ works... To give us 2 kiddos that can turn SSJ1 for fun even before they learn how to fly.... Bah... Maybe i think too much about that T.T

In the end, to me, the worst Era was Cell's and i'm glad that we came back to what was DBZ to its core with Buu: Ennemy powerfull but ridiculous and playfull. Lots of non-sense just for entertainement purpose. The struggle of Gohan to be a normal boy...
Patricia Hapon 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:22 
引用自 Hendumaica
The main issues i have with transformations are what happened in the Buu Era.

They ve spent so much time explaining us how SSJ works... To give us 2 kiddos that can turn SSJ1 for fun even before they learn how to fly.... Bah... Maybe i think too much about that T.T

In the end, to me, the worst Era was Cell's and i'm glad that we came back to what was DBZ to its core with Buu: Ennemy powerfull but ridiculous and playfull. Lots of non-sense just for entertainement purpose. The struggle of Gohan to be a normal boy...
You forgot the famous and terrible SSJ3 ... That the fusionned kids were able to go into like it was nothing ...
GrandMajora 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:25 
引用自 Pax Augusta
Besides probably scrapping the Android, Cell, and Buu Sagas, I'd toss SSJ2, SSJ3, and make SSJ4 the new "SSJ2" as well as the final transformation.

Your move... Toriyama.


*silent with rage*


---------------------------------



I'd probably make Vegeta's tail grow back, since we never really got an explanation for why that didn't happen. I mean, Goku had his surgically removed at the root, and Gohan's tail was burned off, I think. Vegeta just got his cut with a sword.


I'd probably bring Raditz back, since you don't just drop the big reveal that the main character has a secret brother and then cast him away like a background character.


I'd also give the human Z Fighters a bigger roll in the story. Seriously, they are defending the Earth, and yet aliens constantly get all the glory. You'd think earthlings would be able to take care of themselves at least once.

Tien is my favorite non alien on the team, and I actually liked Chiaozu's techniques (think Chiaozu vs Guldo). So what if Saiyans get more powerful after every battle? Piccolo was able to keep up with them through constant training. Why couldn't the humans do the same? Heck, they trained on the Kai planets, which have gravity several times that of Earth's.
最后由 GrandMajora 编辑于; 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:26
BasiliskEye 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:25 
引用自 Pax Augusta
Sadly I think the only thing that will "fix" DBZ is Toriyama out of the picture. He has admitted in the past he is not much of a storyteller. His interest is in making exciting battles and injecting humor into the experience. That's what he likes to do. As long as he is involved, we'll continue to get more ridiculous transformations and fight other gods that resemble ancient egyptian deities.

The man does still know how to do something other then super duper saiyans fighting physical gods. Sandland, and Jaco for example.
GrandMajora 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:31 
引用自 Pax Augusta
Sadly I think the only thing that will "fix" DBZ is Toriyama out of the picture. He has admitted in the past he is not much of a storyteller. His interest is in making exciting battles and injecting humor into the experience. That's what he likes to do. As long as he is involved, we'll continue to get more ridiculous transformations and fight other gods that resemble ancient egyptian deities.


Actually with the Battle of Gods movie, they revealed they will not be creating any more Super Saiyan forms. They are going to focus on the idea of Super Saiyan God.

Also, Toriyama is the creator of Dragon Ball. Saying he needs to be taken off the team is like saying any writer / artist / director should get somebody else to do everything for them and then take credit for the work!


You don't like the way Toriyama writes Dragon Ball? Go read Dragon Ball Multiverse, an entire website of fan created manga for people like you!

http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/
Mew Mew 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:35 
引用自 Super Saiyan Gohan
引用自 Mew Mew
If I could retcon, I'd give Krillin more respect than he gets. He should have been presented as a much better fighter than he is, but nope. It always has to be the Saiyans/Goku that saves the day, not the humans who actually were born on the planet and have always lived there. Krillin SHOULD have killed Freeza himself, but then Goku couldn't have shown up and been a big hero and achieve a rare, legendary transformation that EVERYONE with a tiny hint of Saiyan blood eventually achieves.

Of course, this would then drastically change the series from that point on, but oh well. I'd be happy seeing the non-Saiyans getting to shine for a change instead of just being the punching bags until Mr. Hero Goku shows up.


Nope Krillin is the reason behind the greatest transformation in Dragon Ball.
Still gives me chills every time I watch it

Not really sure how it's so great a transformation when EVERY surviving Saiyan eventually gets it. It was supposed to be some super rare thing that happened only once every thousand years or so. Then Goku comes along and does it. Then Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, etc. Not only do they all become Super Saiyans, but they all hit level two or even three, including the 7 year old kid.

Maybe when the transformation first happened it was pretty awesome, but then they just cheapened it and made the whole Super Saiyan thing completely pointless. It's a big part of why I originally stopped watching the series when I was younger. It just seemed so stupid that suddenly everyone with a hint of Saiyan blood could do this thing that was supposed to be nearly impossible. I've only recently begun watching episodes I missed back in the day.
Ralen 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:38 
引用自 GrandMajora
Actually with the Battle of Gods movie, they revealed they will not be creating any more Super Saiyan forms. They are going to focus on the idea of Super Saiyan God.

Also, Toriyama is the creator of Dragon Ball. Saying he needs to be taken off the team is like saying any writer / artist / director should get somebody else to do everything for them and then take credit for the work!


You don't like the way Toriyama writes Dragon Ball? Go read Dragon Ball Multiverse, an entire website of fan created manga for people like you!

http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/
I'll believe that when I see it. Part of what makes DBZ sell is creating new transformations. That's literally half of the appeal these days.

He created a great universe, but that doesn't make him infallible to wrongdoing. Ever heard of George Lucas? You know, the guy who created the biggest sci-fi franchise on the planet? I believe it's called Star Wars? People were rather happy when he was no longer involved with creating future Star Wars films. Nobody is immune from the criticism of their fan base.

I don't believe I ever stated I didn't like the way Toriyama writes. I loved the series up until the end of the Frieza Saga. It's when he decided to make SSJ a gimmick and take the story in unnecessary turns that the franchise went downhill. Storytelling isn't his strong suit. Action and humor is.
Ralen 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:41 
引用自 Mew Mew
Not really sure how it's so great a transformation when EVERY surviving Saiyan eventually gets it. It was supposed to be some super rare thing that happened only once every thousand years or so. Then Goku comes along and does it. Then Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, etc. Not only do they all become Super Saiyans, but they all hit level two or even three, including the 7 year old kid.

Maybe when the transformation first happened it was pretty awesome, but then they just cheapened it and made the whole Super Saiyan thing completely pointless. It's a big part of why I originally stopped watching the series when I was younger. It just seemed so stupid that suddenly everyone with a hint of Saiyan blood could do this thing that was supposed to be nearly impossible. I've only recently begun watching episodes I missed back in the day.
I agree. I only finished watching DBZ more out of curiosity to see how the show would end. It was never the same after the end of the Frieza Saga though. The series just became more and more ridiculous with every new saga. I still like DBZ, but it's just one of those things where I can't take parts of the show seriously at all. If Toriyama is going to make SSJ into a joke where Gohan and Goku are going to a birthday party while SSJ, why should I take it seriously?
Mew Mew 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:46 
引用自 GrandMajora
引用自 Pax Augusta
Besides probably scrapping the Android, Cell, and Buu Sagas, I'd toss SSJ2, SSJ3, and make SSJ4 the new "SSJ2" as well as the final transformation.

Your move... Toriyama.


*silent with rage*


---------------------------------



I'd probably make Vegeta's tail grow back, since we never really got an explanation for why that didn't happen. I mean, Goku had his surgically removed at the root, and Gohan's tail was burned off, I think. Vegeta just got his cut with a sword.

The tail thing is simply a matter of age. Goku and Gohan both grew their tails back multiple times as children, but after hitting a certain age/stage of development (that I don't think is revealed) it just stops growing back because they're too old. Vegeta was past whatever age/stage of development it is that tails can regrow.
Patricia Hapon 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:47 
引用自 Pax Augusta
引用自 GrandMajora
Actually with the Battle of Gods movie, they revealed they will not be creating any more Super Saiyan forms. They are going to focus on the idea of Super Saiyan God.

Also, Toriyama is the creator of Dragon Ball. Saying he needs to be taken off the team is like saying any writer / artist / director should get somebody else to do everything for them and then take credit for the work!


You don't like the way Toriyama writes Dragon Ball? Go read Dragon Ball Multiverse, an entire website of fan created manga for people like you!

http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/
I'll believe that when I see it. Part of what makes DBZ sell is creating new transformations. That's literally half of the appeal these days.

He created a great universe, but that doesn't make him infallible to wrongdoing. Ever heard of George Lucas? You know, the guy who created the biggest sci-fi franchise on the planet? I believe it's called Star Wars? People were rather happy when he was no longer involved with creating future Star Wars films. Nobody is immune from the criticism of their fan base.

I don't believe I ever stated I didn't like the way Toriyama writes. I loved the series up until the end of the Frieza Saga. It's when he decided to make SSJ a gimmick and take the story in unnecessary turns that the franchise went downhill. Storytelling isn't his strong suit. Action and humor is.
Also, Toriyama just made the manga, everything else, and I really mean everything, isn't from him. He gave his opinion, modified things, but it's very simple :
Not in the manga ? Not by Toriyama.

You loved a filler ? Not him. You loved Broly ? Not him. You loved how 5 minutes were long on Namek ? Not him. You loved Vegetto fighting in base form ? Not him. You loved Gogeta ? Not him. You loved Cooler ? Not him. You loved how Bardock fought for his people ? Not him.
I can go on for a very long time ...

But well, Toriyama is the author, i made DB, then DBZ, and as DBZ looked too serious he changed Gohan into a weird student that put shame on pretty much everyone.

At the end of the manga he just made a "WTF" end where Goku decide to just let his friends and family alone while he put a kid on his back for living at his house.
GrandMajora 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:48 
George Lucas was unpopular because he kept retconning everything with his re-re-re-re-releases of the same movie. Not to mention those damn Mediclorians which makes it confusing as to why they can't artificially produce force sensitives by injecting people with the stuff!

George had a masterpiece of Sci-Fi and he kept trying to make it better, utterly blind to the fact he was only destroying it's image. Worked out for him in the end, he sold it for billions!


Anyways, like you said Toriyama created a great universe, and that's the thing. It's HIS universe, not ours. He has the final say in what happens to it, we just sit back and enjoy the ride... or don't in some cases.

Toriyama has expressed his thoughts on the idea of Dragon Ball continuing without him, and surprisingly he's happy with the idea. Meaning that you might get your wish of having somebody else take the reigns.

But as for me personally, i believe works of fiction are governed by their original creators until they either pass the torch, or die off.
Patricia Hapon 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:49 
引用自 Mew Mew
引用自 GrandMajora


*silent with rage*


---------------------------------



I'd probably make Vegeta's tail grow back, since we never really got an explanation for why that didn't happen. I mean, Goku had his surgically removed at the root, and Gohan's tail was burned off, I think. Vegeta just got his cut with a sword.

The tail thing is simply a matter of age. Goku and Gohan both grew their tails back multiple times as children, but after hitting a certain age/stage of development (that I don't think is revealed) it just stops growing back because they're too old. Vegeta was past whatever age/stage of development it is that tails can regrow.
Vegeta stated himself that it would grow back when a frieza's grunt announced that they were unable to do anything about it.
It's just that Toriyama gave up the idea of tailed humans, that's why you never see a tail again, even with Trunks and Goten.
Ralen 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:52 
引用自 Idealist
Also, Toriyama just made the manga, everything else, and I really mean everything, isn't from him. He gave his opinion, modified things, but it's very simple :
Not in the manga ? Not by Toriyama.

You loved a filler ? Not him. You loved Broly ? Not him. You loved how 5 minutes were long on Namek ? Not him. You loved Vegetto fighting in base form ? Not him. You loved Gogeta ? Not him. You loved Cooler ? Not him. You loved how Bardock fought for his people ? Not him.
I can go on for a very long time ...

But well, Toriyama is the author, i made DB, then DBZ, and as DBZ looked too serious he changed Gohan into a weird student that put shame on pretty much everyone.

At the end of the manga he just made a "WTF" end where Goku decide to just let his friends and family alone while he put a kid on his back for living at his house.
You don't have to tell me. I'm well aware of what Toriyama created and what Toei created. Either way, disregarding filler and movies, all of my points were determined by Toriyama himself.

The ending of DBZ with Uub was just odd. Again, nothing really made sense in DBZ after a while. Still a very entertaining anime and had some great high points, but it just got lost in Toriyama's quirky mind. Part of the blame goes to Toei for forcing him to meet deadlines and get the manga done.

Toriyama clearly just pulled a J.K. Rowling and did a half-baked ending to the series because he was tired of writing and drawing for it. He's only getting back into the swing of things now because he's not actually doing the heavy lifting. He's merely a consultant telling everybody else what to do.
Patricia Hapon 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 9:56 
引用自 Pax Augusta
引用自 Idealist
Also, Toriyama just made the manga, everything else, and I really mean everything, isn't from him. He gave his opinion, modified things, but it's very simple :
Not in the manga ? Not by Toriyama.

You loved a filler ? Not him. You loved Broly ? Not him. You loved how 5 minutes were long on Namek ? Not him. You loved Vegetto fighting in base form ? Not him. You loved Gogeta ? Not him. You loved Cooler ? Not him. You loved how Bardock fought for his people ? Not him.
I can go on for a very long time ...

But well, Toriyama is the author, i made DB, then DBZ, and as DBZ looked too serious he changed Gohan into a weird student that put shame on pretty much everyone.

At the end of the manga he just made a "WTF" end where Goku decide to just let his friends and family alone while he put a kid on his back for living at his house.
You don't have to tell me. I'm well aware of what Toriyama created and what Toei created. Either way, disregarding filler and movies, all of my points were determined by Toriyama himself.

The ending of DBZ with Uub was just odd. Again, nothing really made sense in DBZ after a while. Still a very entertaining anime and had some great high points, but it just got lost in Toriyama's quirky mind. Part of the blame goes to Toei for forcing him to meet deadlines and get the manga done.

Toriyama clearly just pulled a J.K. Rowling and did a half-baked ending to the series because he was tired of writing and drawing for it. He's only getting back into the swing of things now because he's not actually doing the heavy lifting. He's merely a consultant telling everybody else what to do.
Actually it was more for completing what you said than telling it to you, that's with I used the "also".

And it's more J.K.Rolling that pulled a Toriyama ... But yeah, it's pretty much clear that he didn't wanted to work like this, and now that DB is (already) in others hands he have way more fun in his work.
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发帖日期: 2015 年 2 月 21 日 下午 6:32
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