So how are you MEANT to fight the hands?

[Thug Killadome]

So now that Frost Nova takes charges, is there a way to actually combat the hands? The hitbox for their grab is insanely huge and there's not a lot of headroom to leap over them in the level. Is there a surefire way to not get grabbed by these?

[Thug Killadome]

Originally posted by arifalien23:

Parry them if you're confident and if your weapon is fast enough. (Hit them just as the lunge towards you, it will cancel their grab) Or jump just when the hand is about to lunge you (Not over it)

Doesn't work.

[Starch]

It does, actually. If you lack the ability to try that you can rely on the class skills that negate the hands. Mage (or any class that happens to find Frost Nova) can simply use a freezing spell moments before or after you get grabbed to make the hand release you. With wildling you can level animal to 3 and the sprint is so powerful you can use it even after getting grabbed by a hand to take no damage.

[Thug Killadome]

Originally posted by Starch:

It does, actually. If you lack the ability to try that you can rely on the class skills that negate the hands. Mage (or any class that happens to find Frost Nova) can simply use a freezing spell moments before or after you get grabbed to make the hand release you. With wildling you can level animal to 3 and the sprint is so powerful you can use it even after getting grabbed by a hand to take no damage.

I'll give it another shot, then. Each time I tried it, their hitbox got me before my attack connects

[Thug Killadome]

Unless there's video footage of it I'm just gonna assume you need frame perfect timing, because I can't swat them out of the lunge no matter what. They really don't have any business dealing 15+ damage per hit--their function should be holding you in place for the zombies to hit or grabbing you on spikes or something. I can manage just fine up until Catacombs where everything suddenly hits like a truck and there's no room to dodge

[Skirvy the Butt-Pirate]

they have a pretty obvious indicator that they are about to lunge, use this to know when you can get some damage in and run away as they build it up. If you are on flat ground from them they can lunge fairly fair, so jump as they lunge near you and they wont grab you. I find it best to kill them quickly because they can run away and come back to cause more headache later on in the level.

[Thug Killadome]

Originally posted by arifalien23:

Don't worry they can do that and still do damage, it's the best from both sides :p

Also i don't think it's frame perfect just attack as soon as they glow for the lunge.
https://gph.is/g/46qJjnX

Checks out, managed to get the timing down for the most part. Still need to figure out how to handle abomination, but thanks for the help

[Jhon Baard YT]

if you don't play the beta use charm spell on abomination the spikes that float around him will damage abomination if you do play the beta wait for the spikes to go further from the boss he usually runs toward you at that moment you can hit him a few times then run again

[Eple]

the hands are actually one of the eayer enemys to deal with as they give actually telegraphed signals of what theyr doing, while i myself agree charges to spells makes no sense, instead they could have charge up like some spells do (that also have cursed number of charges).. really wish charges would just disappear short of screen nukes. there are other ways of nerfing freeze to be used to completely freeze enemys 24\7, like cool down time, charge up time, cast time, range ect.. heck the regular freeze spell never needed charges to begin with as those balls travels slowly, doesnt home inn ect... Magic missile that does have a charge up, does terrible damage.. while the starting lightning spell is ok for most of game, and only gets better, unlike all the other spells wich can mostly be left on level 1.

[KimonoBoxFox]

Frost Aura Helm helps, as do i-frames from acro 1 roll . In alternative to those, Wolf Sprint from Animal tree, use wall/floor phasing to avoid, iceball spell, or a freeze-branded weapon with attack speed. You can also blink in place, which telefrags them for 30 damage. Best cure for these things, though, is just to learn their timing, bait them over a knife trap while running away from their attacks altogether, and insta-kill them. Also, don't forget your ice-wands; a quick ice wand and then switch to down-stab sword pogo, will also work, if you remember your swap/cancel key.

Also, remember that magic potions restore your charges on spells, and boosting your int grants you more spell charges per campfire. Prepare ahead as best you can!

[KimonoBoxFox]

Originally posted by Eple:

Magic missile that does have a charge up, does terrible damage.. while the starting lightning spell is ok for most of game, and only gets better, unlike all the other spells wich can mostly be left on level 1.

Magic missile's main use is for quickly finishing low-hp enemies, and for getting bonus damage on bosses, midair/while on high/low ground. Its utility significantly diminishes after Forest/Temple/Halls of Blood, but it can still be used to whittle down some foes such as imps in Tower and mechanical spiders in Factory. Potentially one of its best uses is for knocking whisps off of Whisp Queen, in Forest, or detecting the Evil Mage boss before he teleports in to attack, in Ruins. It's also quite good for killing off the shopkeeper without being harmed.

But yeah, magic missiles are freakin' useless on hands. They're actually better saved for getting chip-damage on zombies to make killing them faster, so you're less likely to get swatted in the process. For the hands, you want charm, iceball, or fireball, or just smack them with an enchanted spacer or wave rod shot or two.

Another thing to consider, is Magic Missiles do physical damage, and are buffed somewhat by applying the 'fairy magic' debuff to your target, first.

Lightning is essentially just a poor man's magic missile/chain lightning hybrid that can damage golems and potentially start a short-circuit in water, and it ultimately needs a buff, as it charges slower than missile for about the same damage. Even stacking intelligence, it is infinitely less time consuming, level-demanding, and exposing you to enemies, just to hit the thing you're trying to cast at with a sword or axe, once.

Basically, though, spells in general--and especially higher level versions, with the exception of iceball--have needed a buff, ever since they changed 'Encounter Death More Frequently' and 'Death Acolyte', not to multiply spell damage. They should not be considered your primary method of defeating just any enemy in general, they mostly have extremely niche uses that you have to experiment to find. Additional copies of spells are most useful for giving you extra 'charges' per floor, and the low-int heroes in the party are going to be the ones who get the most value out of say, multiple levels of charm, frost nova, dash, blink, or evil transformation--while pretty much one level in anything but iceball or summon monster is sufficient for the int-stacking party member(s), with those two spells getting better both the higher your int and the more levels you get (albeit summon monster 2 is arguably better than 3+, since the imps poison enemies and have less predictable AI)

Iceball, on the flip side, needs nerfed to either have a casting time, or to not do damage--preferably the latter, because ice-casing by making ledges against walls, is a super useful and entertaining gameplay element for getting around, that also frees up your dash spells for Knight.

[Starch]

just to clarify- mortality armor/death's acolyte *does* multiply spell damage, the change is that damage isn't multiplied if you aren't close enough to the enemy. That means you've gotta be all up in the enemy's face for it to work, but it does work.