In-game progress in the long run

[ekolite]

So do you progress in this game in the long run after dying over and over?

As with most other roguelikes you have a sense of progress to keep your perma-death frustrations in place, in BOI you get unlocks for certain goals, in rogue legacy you upgrade your castle, and in spelunky you unlock chars/shortcuts while filling out a nice journal, add in achievement runs for these games etc..

I'm getting concerned about how this game is developing seeing how lately people are not satisfied in dying and some felt the game is a waste of time. I know this is still EA and it's why I hope this thing gets addressed before the game releases.

How do you feel about the risk/reward in this game?

[Master Firebending]

you do unlock new background and achievements, most of all your play skills improve,and it's good enough for me,that's how i feel. but i do agree with you, devs should add sth that shows your progress but still fair for others when you play online, like story lines for each class maybe? i would love so if they add an auto generated storylines for players to discover

[The Mad Poet]

Steam Achievments would be awesome aswell.

[Wandering I]

Risk/reward is too high, there are too many games, (especially roguelikes) that substitute difficulty for actual gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I believe difficulty is important in a roguelike but there needs to be a mechanic that brings people back. It's fun to finally defeat those bosses but inbetween levels you don't even get a full health bar. The thing that is fun about binding of isaac and dungeon crawl stone soup is occasionally you get to feel godlike, like you will get a scroll or an item or an evolution in your character that will make all the difference. Here it's just die, possibly unlock a new trait/class repeat. I really like the character levelling system and these traits can close that difficulty gap a little, but not enough so far IMO. That being said, I still enjoy this game, and will keep an eye on it. :)

[Dark Meta Knight]

Originally posted by Magus:

Risk/reward is too high, there are too many games, (especially roguelikes) that substitute difficulty for actual gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I believe difficulty is important in a roguelike but there needs to be a mechanic that brings people back. It's fun to finally defeat those bosses but inbetween levels you don't even get a full health bar. The thing that is fun about binding of isaac and dungeon crawl stone soup is occasionally you get to feel godlike, like you will get a scroll or an item or an evolution in your character that will make all the difference. Here it's just die, possibly unlock a new trait/class repeat. I really like the character levelling system and these traits can close that difficulty gap a little, but not enough so far IMO. That being said, I still enjoy this game, and will keep an eye on it. :)

Personally I feel the opposite: I feel godlike if I beat a boss in this game, because my gear or character didn't beat them - me, my skill as a player, beat them.

I really like games that don't give you OP items because then you feel like your skill pulled you through, not your gear or stats.

This is just my opinion though.

[Raff.run]

The game already has achievements though(a.k.a secrets). While it can improve in the "sense of progression", I don't think that shortcuts would be a good idea. Just imagine starting off with nothing(possibly not even levels) on the Catacombs.

[Wandering I]

Originally posted by darkmetaknight:

Originally posted by Magus:

Risk/reward is too high, there are too many games, (especially roguelikes) that substitute difficulty for actual gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I believe difficulty is important in a roguelike but there needs to be a mechanic that brings people back. It's fun to finally defeat those bosses but inbetween levels you don't even get a full health bar. The thing that is fun about binding of isaac and dungeon crawl stone soup is occasionally you get to feel godlike, like you will get a scroll or an item or an evolution in your character that will make all the difference. Here it's just die, possibly unlock a new trait/class repeat. I really like the character levelling system and these traits can close that difficulty gap a little, but not enough so far IMO. That being said, I still enjoy this game, and will keep an eye on it. :)

Personally I feel the opposite: I feel godlike if I beat a boss in this game, because my gear or character didn't beat them - me, my skill as a player, beat them.

I really like games that don't give you OP items because then you feel like your skill pulled you through, not your gear or stats.

This is just my opinion though.

I hear you there, but that victory oft becomes dust as you attempt to get through the next level, I mean it's not dark souls, not everything has to be dark souls or darkest dungeon (or darkety darkson of darkville...) and I have felt those (fleeting) victories, but a full health bar would be awesome with that xp, I mean at least with dark souls you get full hp at the fire. I digress... But yeah it's still early access so I won't nitpick too much, there is still a lot of fun to be had here.

[Raff.run]

With full health every bonfire the game would be super easy though. On dark souls it's justified by level length(I guess? Never played it), but Vagante's levels aren't that long and you can would be able to just skip a level to get full health back. I think that if it had some sort of free HP restore, it would be on the end of each area, to keep things balanced.

[Dark Meta Knight]

Originally posted by -=CzS=- Reploid (Edge):

With full health every bonfire the game would be super easy though. On dark souls it's justified by level length(I guess? Never played it), but Vagante's levels aren't that long and you can would be able to just skip a level to get full health back. I think that if it had some sort of free HP restore, it would be on the end of each area, to keep things balanced.

That...Actually doesn't sound like a bad idea, maybe the bonfire perk does that instead of slightly more HP recovery at bonfires? (Personally I think 4 more HP than usual between levels is a crap amount and not worth using that perk over others.)

[Wandering I]

Originally posted by -=CzS=- Reploid (Edge):

With full health every bonfire the game would be super easy though. On dark souls it's justified by level length, but Vagante's levels aren't that long and you can would be able to just skip a level to get full health back. I think that if it had some sort of free HP restore, it would be on the end of each area to keep things balanced.

Maybe you guys are just infinitely better than me at the game and I am a filthy casual. :) I don't think it would make things "super easy" at all. Even when attempting to bypass the boss altogether, (and keeping your hitpoints) the next level will most certainly destroy me. Doesn't matter how many ice wands i've found, or cloaks of the cuisinart, or whatever random item I have found. :)

[Raff.run]

Not really, I am a filthy casual that can't even get past the Jungle on Spelunky(nor survive a dark level) but I think that Vagante is kind of like Crypt of the Necrodancer. Once you learn the monster patterns, the game gets easier. Also I like to always rob shopkeepers to dedicate all money to the light shrine and use shackled to save uncurse scrolls(that helps me a lot when I'm a mage so I can have extra scrolls to get another portal book at scholar).

[Wandering I]

Originally posted by -=CzS=- Reploid (Edge):

Not really, I am a filthy casual that can't even get past the Jungle on Spelunky(nor survive a dark level) but I think that Vagante is kind of like Crypt of the Necrodancer. Once you learn the monster patterns, the game gets easier. Also I like to always rob shopkeepers to dedicate all money to the light shrine and use shackled to save uncurse scrolls(that helps me a lot when I'm a mage so I can have extra scrolls to get another portal book at scholar).

Hahaha if you can withstand the wrath of the shopkeeper you can beat anything!

[Raff.run]

Oh, but I don't dare face that monstruosity without getting Iceball/Frost nova first. Until then, I just don't buy anything unless it's cheap and useful(like a scroll/potion I haven't identified yet).
It's possible to kill him early though by rolling frenetically as rogue or luring him into jumping on spikes.

[Wandering I]

Originally posted by -=CzS=- Reploid (Edge):

Oh, but I don't dare face that monstruosity without getting Iceball/Frost nova first. Until then, I just don't buy anything unless it's cheap and useful(like a scroll/potion I haven't identified yet).
It's possible to kill him early though by rolling frenetically as rogue or luring him into jumping on spikes.

The latter is the only way i've ever won against the terror that is shopkeeper.

[WhiteCrow]

This is still a concern of mine with the game, and one of the reasons I haven't bought it yet (Also waiting for more content). The game has been on my radar for years, even before it came to Steam. For me personally, an unlock system that runs parallel to games of this genre is pretty important. They don't need to be upgrades, or things to make playthroughs easier. They could be aesthetic, lore/story related, even a graveyard or medals/trophies.

Just dying over and over again, or the times you've completed runs with nothing to show for it other than your own awareness can make the game feel barren. Isaac, Gungeon, Nuclear Throne, they all pull this off, and and it's becoming a bit of a standard I think, or at least something people expect. I really hope this game can offer something similar.

Edit: Fixed punctuation.

[Wandering I]

Originally posted by WhiteCrow:

This is still a concern of mine with the game, and one of the reasons I haven't bought it yet (Also waiting for more content). The game has been on my radar for years, even before it came to Steam. For me personally, an unlock system that runs parallel to game's of this genre is pretty important. They don't need to be upgrades, or things to make playthroughs easier. They could be aesthetic, lore/story related, even a graveyard or medals/trophies.

Just dying over and over again, or the times you've completed runs with nothing to show for it other than your own awareness can make game's feel barren. Isaac, Gungeon, Nuclear Throne, they all pull this off, and and it's becoming a bit of a standard I think, or at least something people expect. I really hope this game can offer something similar.

Well put, I completely agree.