Frostpunk

Frostpunk

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CatMeowMeow Jan 22, 2020 @ 8:57pm
WTF Internal Promotion?
OK So Workers can become Engineers from Internal Promotion

But can you explain

How can 50 wood and 50 Steel can make them instantly become knowledgable In +6 years of Upper-Middle/High Class University Education of Mechanical Engineering or Medicine??
I would understand if they became a inspector or foreman but they can go straight to work in infirmary and workshop???
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Tobycars Jan 22, 2020 @ 9:29pm 
It's like the real world. Buy your degree and you learn the trade on the job.
amordron Jan 22, 2020 @ 9:38pm 
There part automation. There just in this case replacing the brain the materals is used to pay for the parts.
CatMeowMeow Jan 23, 2020 @ 2:13pm 
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Synths

Still they should have just have more plausible like those Promoted people can only work in inspectorate or guard station.
The Mogician Jan 23, 2020 @ 7:00pm 
Think of it this way, the 50 wood and 50 steel goes towards upgrading their toolkit and they learn on the job.
Prophet_01 Jan 23, 2020 @ 10:17pm 
I can see some similarities to how things are in Germany. The timelines in Frostpunk are obviously extreme, but that's nothing new. Internal promotion itself is not too far fetched from my pov.

In Germany, workers in technical fields are required to complete 2,5-3,5 years of specialized training (part of it in schools, other parts working). It's a type of degree by itself.

A worker can apply for 'technician' courses which is an additional 2 years of weekly courses in your free time. After the attached exams you're degree is formally considered equal to the lowest in engineering (bachelor).
There are differences in knowledge, but hands-on experience itself is considered very valuable. Both frequently work in the same jobs. Promotions are a different story.

Trainings, schools and exams are all highly regulated by the state and other institutions, but then again, this all happens outside of universities.
Last edited by Prophet_01; Jan 23, 2020 @ 10:43pm
CatMeowMeow Jan 24, 2020 @ 12:07am 
Originally posted by The Mogician:
Think of it this way, the 50 wood and 50 steel goes towards upgrading their toolkit and they learn on the job.
If that is true... Why the hell do you need University and college???
Why can't high school kids or some clerk go straight to become doctors or engineers???
CureAga Wine Jan 24, 2020 @ 1:28am 
Originally posted by CatMeowMeow:
If that is true... Why the hell do you need University and college???
Why can't high school kids or some clerk go straight to become doctors or engineers???
Doctors *or* engineers?
sortulf Jan 24, 2020 @ 1:40am 
Originally posted by CatMeowMeow:
If that is true... Why the hell do you need University and college???
Why can't high school kids or some clerk go straight to become doctors or engineers???
Because you are not promoting the youngers workers - you are promoting older hands, that have worked on this for a while, learning a lot of the ropes already.
Prophet_01 Jan 26, 2020 @ 12:35am 
Do we even now if workers are unskilled plebs or skilled steam punk mechanics?
We're building the most ambitious piece of tech in the empire. They'd probably try to get as many specialized and trained people as they can.

Doing all this complex work and having the best of the best with them probably helps, too. I wonder if internal promotion was a thing in WWII.
Last edited by Prophet_01; Jan 26, 2020 @ 12:42am
Carlos Jan 26, 2020 @ 3:36am 
Remember, they don't become skilled, they just get promoted :D

Just like in RL.
Last edited by Carlos; Jan 26, 2020 @ 3:37am
Tankfriend Jan 26, 2020 @ 4:36am 
Originally posted by Prophet_01:
Do we even now if workers are unskilled plebs or skilled steam punk mechanics?
Given that it's workers running everything from simple construction work up to producing high-tech parts for generator construction, it's probably both. Just like how you have really dumb and really smart people in the real-life working force, regardless of whether they have a degree or not.
Last edited by Tankfriend; Jan 26, 2020 @ 4:38am
Serious Business Jan 26, 2020 @ 7:29am 
Originally posted by CatMeowMeow:
Originally posted by The Mogician:
Think of it this way, the 50 wood and 50 steel goes towards upgrading their toolkit and they learn on the job.
If that is true... Why the hell do you need University and college???
Why can't high school kids or some clerk go straight to become doctors or engineers???

Dangerous thoughts considering the number of "doctors and engineers" we import these days regardless of the number of deaths that follow
HerMajesty Jan 27, 2020 @ 7:40am 
If you chose the other taw tree workers can work at every workplace without getting upgraded thats much more silly.
amordron Jan 27, 2020 @ 7:51am 
Originally posted by joline.riot:
If you chose the other taw tree workers can work at every workplace without getting upgraded thats much more silly.

No it’s not as they take a significant hit to there effectiveness working at only 75 percent speed. That rather clearly shows them learning on the job and being unable to do the same job as effectivly. Remember the eng back in the day where not doing rocket sience we are talking the days of using leaches and other rather ineffective methiods for eg meg treatment. The avg person can pick this up without much issue and be similar in effectiveness. So a loss in pref but able to do the job makes sense.

Instantly being upgraded dose not.

Thou the op dose have it wrong about the level of education a eng back than had. Eng still where smart but they where doing less so jobs that the avg person couldn’t do but more the avg person wouldent be effective at. So the avg person instantly upgraded to eng makes no sense them doing the job at a lower effectiveness dose.

Even a promotion than being properly taught on the job makes sense but would make more sense if they at least had to spend 2 days in the eng center to learn before being promoted to show they have some background to justify saying there the same as a normal eng from there.
Last edited by amordron; Jan 27, 2020 @ 7:54am
Harris Jan 27, 2020 @ 8:27am 
A very interesting thread and I'm happy someone made it. Internal Promotions is one my favourite laws and it's also one where we can see the boss himself for the only time in the game :)

Back in the original scenarios workers and engineers were treated differently. They were basically general workforce vs specialized workforce. In the world with the temperature of -150 there's no more formal degrees or stuff like that and you can make kids be medical or engineer apprentices. They never grow into adults over the course of the game but the accumulated on-the-job experience would make them, in the game's logic, engineers.

Last Autumn, they are treated indeed more like classes than anything else and the class struggle theme is heavily stressed. Abolishment of Privileges totally makes sence as a law - workers in engineer assignments not only work slower but there are scripted events when they make mistakes that sometimes cause people die.

Internal Promotions has little to do with skill, it is hinted even in the game with the description and people's reaction. It is given to "loyal" people, snitches and the like. Because Engineers route quickly escalates from specialists enforcing safety regulations to the penal colony.

And at this point, Engineers degrades to merely a class name, it no longer denotes what the class does or the needed qualifications. For armed prison guards any university-level knowledge is redundant really. And an overseer could well be a worker with lots of on-the-job experience, as suggested above.

There is only a single discrepancy left to adress, and that is medical and research assignments in this case. I go simply assuming that you original "true" Engineers fill the workshops and medical posts, while your "new" Engineers are specifically promoted to man overseers and security stations. If you view it like that then everything is fine.

As for 50 wood and 50 steel price, then well the easiest way to explain it is free promotions would be OP and render importing Engineers via logistics even more useless than before. And the reasonable or "logical" explanation I can come up with is that Engineers are privileged class in the game, so they get better goods, better accomodations, luxury, clothes, equipment, you name it. Maybe the resources somehow go to that.

Remember it's kinda simplified with resources in Frostpunk. For example, we don't need to supply clothing or make medicine, so wood steel coal and food are our only resources. And that's not a bad thing too, otherwise we'd be playing Anno instead of Frostpunk.
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Date Posted: Jan 22, 2020 @ 8:57pm
Posts: 15