60 celcius at day 20? Impossible.

[Daredeviler_21]

I have a level two generator, houses and medical facilities on the inner ring of my city, and I have people dying of frostbite. The weather modifier is -4, whilst the gen is +2 and the insulation for the medicals are +1, but because there's still -1 the facility can't run cause it's too cold.

How the ♥♥♥♥ am I supposed to deal with this, my constant threat of lack of coal, and these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ londoners?

[What is your ip]

it's when you're people go to work they get the frostbite. you need to put heater were you're workers are outside.

[Skirlasvoud]

Go heavy on the research. I usually have some 6-8 workshops by day 15. Researching additional generator power and the steam Coalmines (avoid thumpers like the plauge) to fuel your operations, should be well within your means.

This is my city, on hard, by day 20, just before the -60 cold snap. It's well suited to surviving it, although barely.

https://i.imgur.com/JQP8YIi.jpg

Here's that same city on day 25, after the cold and still progressing and rockin' it:

https://i.imgur.com/TnxCxlM.jpg

[abelzitman]

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

Go heavy on the research. I usually have some 6-8 workshops by day 15. Researching additional generator power and the steam Coalmines (avoid thumpers like the plauge) to fuel your operations, should be well within your means.

This is my city, on hard, by day 20, just before the -60 cold snap. It's well suited to surviving it, although barely.

https://i.imgur.com/JQP8YIi.jpg

Here's that same city on day 25, after the cold and still progressing and rockin' it:

https://i.imgur.com/TnxCxlM.jpg

Thumpers actually work when you use upgraded gathering posts before getting automaton manned coal mines

[Skirlasvoud]

Originally posted by abelzitman:

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

Go heavy on the research. I usually have some 6-8 workshops by day 15. Researching additional generator power and the steam Coalmines (avoid thumpers like the plauge) to fuel your operations, should be well within your means.

This is my city, on hard, by day 20, just before the -60 cold snap. It's well suited to surviving it, although barely.

https://i.imgur.com/JQP8YIi.jpg

Here's that same city on day 25, after the cold and still progressing and rockin' it:

https://i.imgur.com/TnxCxlM.jpg

Thumpers actually work when you use upgraded gathering posts before getting automaton manned coal mines

It's a matter of personal preference I guess. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that can make the Coal Thumper work.

Me though? I always skip Coal Thumping for a Coal Mine and I never look back when I assign the bridge Automaton to it. I'm always off to a FAR better start when I go exclusively coal mines and on Hard I always fail when I go Thumpers first. I'm not sure how others do it, but I always feel choked for manpower with Thumpers and having to waste too much research on them.

[Cougarific]

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

It's a matter of personal preference I guess. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that can make the Coal Thumper work.

There's also an element of randomness that can impact your approach - I've got two simultaneous playthroughs going right now (one for fun, one for recording) and in one game I've got surplus manpower - can't build enough workplaces to put them all to work - and in the other game manpower has been a constant struggle - everyone's always hard at work and some workplaces don't have enough workers.

Coal Thumpers are relatively bad when you don't have enough workers to go around, but not terrible when you have surplus workers.

[Daredeviler_21]

I used a coal thumper to great effect in my second playthrough. My first one I had no clue about how to structure my city and had hunting huts next to my generator and houses behind those, away from the generator. I restarted on about day 10.

The one that is currently going D.E.D. to the -60 degree weather used a thumper. Without any extra coal usage, you need 12 people to sustain a generator when gathering from an already exising coal pile. Building a thumper and a gathering post you seem to be able to get a greater coal surplus with the exact same 12 workers spread between the two buildings. Plus, you can set even more workers on the generated coal pile as well, so you can effectively double gather if you have the manpower...

However I didn't have enough manpower to do that even with 100 workers. Between my food, wood, coal and single workshop, I have no clue how the hell you could sustain 8 workshops at day 15! Also I did have an automaton, so that did help. A little. Not by much, but it still did.

[Beanzoboy]

Originally posted by Daredeviler_21:

I used a coal thumper to great effect in my second playthrough. My first one I had no clue about how to structure my city and had hunting huts next to my generator and houses behind those, away from the generator. I restarted on about day 10.

The one that is currently going D.E.D. to the -60 degree weather used a thumper. Without any extra coal usage, you need 12 people to sustain a generator when gathering from an already exising coal pile. Building a thumper and a gathering post you seem to be able to get a greater coal surplus with the exact same 12 workers spread between the two buildings. Plus, you can set even more workers on the generated coal pile as well, so you can effectively double gather if you have the manpower...

However I didn't have enough manpower to do that even with 100 workers. Between my food, wood, coal and single workshop, I have no clue how the hell you could sustain 8 workshops at day 15! Also I did have an automaton, so that did help. A little. Not by much, but it still did.

You don't need 8 workshops, you only need 4. I'm not sure if there's any bonus research for the other ones. If you put the kids in shelters you can have them assist the workshops which increases the research a bit more. 168% was my research speed with 4 workshops and kids.

The thumpers are really really great at late game. You can put four coal thumpers in range of one or two gathering posts (having Automatons manning the thumpers) and you can get absurd amounts of coal without problems. Plus, they don't freeze like the mines do, so you don't have to sacrifice people to keep them open. I had four gathering posts with at least two thumpers in range of each (four thumpers total for the achievement), so I was gathering thousands of coal per day. With the bonus gathering post insulation and the heater boosts, even -60 is no match for them. -120 is still bad, but by then everything's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ anyways.

In regards to your manning problem, I've NEVER turned down refugees, so I always wind up with over 600 people. At any one time I've got dozens that aren't working because I don't need anything else. I haven't played it on Hard yet, but I had no problems on my first playthrough.

[Daredeviler_21]

Originally posted by Beanzoboy:

Originally posted by Daredeviler_21:

I used a coal thumper to great effect in my second playthrough. My first one I had no clue about how to structure my city and had hunting huts next to my generator and houses behind those, away from the generator. I restarted on about day 10.

The one that is currently going D.E.D. to the -60 degree weather used a thumper. Without any extra coal usage, you need 12 people to sustain a generator when gathering from an already exising coal pile. Building a thumper and a gathering post you seem to be able to get a greater coal surplus with the exact same 12 workers spread between the two buildings. Plus, you can set even more workers on the generated coal pile as well, so you can effectively double gather if you have the manpower...

However I didn't have enough manpower to do that even with 100 workers. Between my food, wood, coal and single workshop, I have no clue how the hell you could sustain 8 workshops at day 15! Also I did have an automaton, so that did help. A little. Not by much, but it still did.

You don't need 8 workshops, you only need 4. I'm not sure if there's any bonus research for the other ones. If you put the kids in shelters you can have them assist the workshops which increases the research a bit more. 168% was my research speed with 4 workshops and kids.

The thumpers are really really great at late game. You can put four coal thumpers in range of one or two gathering posts (having Automatons manning the thumpers) and you can get absurd amounts of coal without problems. Plus, they don't freeze like the mines do, so you don't have to sacrifice people to keep them open. I had four gathering posts with at least two thumpers in range of each (four thumpers total for the achievement), so I was gathering thousands of coal per day. With the bonus gathering post insulation and the heater boosts, even -60 is no match for them. -120 is still bad, but by then everything's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ anyways.

In regards to your manning problem, I've NEVER turned down refugees, so I always wind up with over 600 people. At any one time I've got dozens that aren't working because I don't need anything else. I haven't played it on Hard yet, but I had no problems on my first playthrough.

I never turned down workers either, but I was in a catch 22 situation. By the time I reached day 20 I didn't have enough workers to sustain extra facilities nor did I have enough facilities to sustain extra workers. Even if I found extra refugees and got them to join and made them suffer through a few days of agony I was only about 5-6 days away from losing over half my existing workforce, if not more to those damn londoners.

Also with thumpers you can assign automatons to the coal piles directly as well. I don't recall being able to add automatons to the gathering posts themselves, but I could have saved 10 workers in my second playthrough easily by assigning the bridge automaton to gathering coal, instead of producing it. Because my 10 gatherers only worked in the day, the thumper storage was always at max since the automaton worked day and night (even though it's only at 60% efficiency, it's technically 10-20% more efficient per day), and I could have easily spared 2 people for the gathering post for even more coal gathering, as 8 people in a thumper could have likely kept output at a decent pace.

If I'm not mistaken, you can therefore technically fully automate a thumper if you're willing to spare 2 automatons per thumper. I think many people have overlooked this. It also means if you have a single gathering post, you can theoretically have 25 people gather from the pile, instead of only 10.

[dagawdfadda]

You have to spam the workshops especially on hard. You also need to get the coal and steam core outpost set up asap. That 800 coal is absolutely needed and you'll need to build a bunch of autos (i think i've had anywhere from 10-20)

As far as mine vs thumper vs kiln.. I find mines to be simplest to manage early but I also build a thumper (and 4 gathering posts) and a kiln so that when the mines freeze I dont worry about coal production.

Also I found using steam hubs instead of upgrading the range on the generator to be much more coal efficient. You only need 5 steam hubs and youll be able to build enough houses for 700 people, 10 workshops, 3 advaned hothouses, 2 cookhouses, 15 child shelters, 10 medical tents, a pub, a factory, and once the big storm hits you can replace a bunch of those with infermaries.

[Vulkandrache]

Originally posted by Beanzoboy:

You don't need 8 workshops, you only need 4. I'm not sure if there's any bonus research for the other ones. If you put the kids in shelters you can have them assist the workshops which increases the research a bit more. 168% was my research speed with 4 workshops and kids.

1. The kids are far too valuable for the Infirmaries.
2. If you want to complete all tech before the storm hits you need alot more than 4.
3. 168% is very cute.
On my hard win i was running 28 at the end. 14 manned by automatons. 400% during the day.
And i still only managed to complete the last tech 10 hours before the storm.

Originally posted by dagawdfadda:

Also I found using steam hubs instead of upgrading the range on the generator to be much more coal efficient. You only need 5 steam hubs and youll be able to build enough houses for 700 people, 10 workshops, 3 advaned hothouses, 2 cookhouses, 15 child shelters, 10 medical tents, a pub, a factory, and once the big storm hits you can replace a bunch of those with infermaries.

That massive disparity between the awesomeness of the hubs and the near uselessness of the range upgrade is one of my main complaints about this game.
In my eyes the use of hubs should be a lategame thing, something for when range 4 doenst cut it anymore.
But its so broken to be able to teleport the full heat amount across the map.
Blop down a hub near the coalmine and fill the rest with houses. Loliwin.

[Skirlasvoud]

I need to push back on the assumed uselessness of the Main Core range upgrade here.

As you can see in the screenshots I shared in this thread's second post, I always go with the range upgrade of Main Core. Steam hubs are far more finicky, require precious steel and when you place your houses just right (halfway into one of the range circles), you can heat more things far more effectively with the main core, than you ever could with the hubs.

An extended range steam hub eats as much coal as a basic Main Core. Four extended range steam hubs are coal consumers comparable to that of a main core with all the range upgrades, yet a fully upgraded main core covers some 50% more surface area with far more reliability, then 4 steam hubs can.

It's simply a matter of how circles work and the fact that all of them are concentric already with the Main Core, but not with any steam hubs you're thinking of using.


Hubs for me are a mid-to-late game thing, just before the first -60 hits, to protect industry districts that lie beyond the range of Main Core.

Early steam hubs are for people who don't know how to do research quickly enough to unlock the range upgrades or some basic bunkhouses.

[Vulkandrache]

You dont upgrade the hub range until well into the lategame.
The whole range thing is only part of the problem.

For one rangeupgrade i can instead build 2 hubs for the same coal consumption.
Those 2 cover more area and i can split and place whereever i need them.
And it only get worse with higher upgrade.
They are not only more flexible they are also cheaper to maintain during a time in which coal/area is most important.

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

require precious steel and when you place your houses just right (halfway into one of the range circles)

1. Wood is way more in short supply until you start upgrading the hunters.
The only real consumer is research. And automatons later on.
But at that point nearly everything else is build and the mines work 24/7 anyway
after the first few robots.
Infact, most of the early game steel comes from the scouts.

2. The generator fits exactly 1 house per range. How do you overlap anything half here?
Other building hardly matter. There are not enough of them to really cause problems.
The only real space consuming thing, the hunters, dont need heating.
The 2 initial workshops, the kitchen, the first childcare all fit into the initial circle.
The infirmary, public- and carehouse can be put into whereever a hub has space left.

[Skirlasvoud]

1.

The only real consumer is research.

That it is and if Steel doesn't bother you, then you're not doing as much research as I am and are lagging behind me. I also go heavy on the outpost teams. I want to hit Tesla City and the Stranded Dreadnought ASAP. Outpost Depots require a good deal of steel.
Bunkhouses also consume it, and I'd rather build bunkhouses to wether the first declines in temperature than build steam hubs.
One requires coal, the other heats itself passively. The latter is a far better option.


2.
I'm talking about the Main Core here, just to be sure. Let's say we're talking about the third circle around the Main Core. I can either fit some 16 houses in the third circle be placing them exactly within this circle... OR I can fit 24 houses by placing them halfway between the third and fourth circle. Houses only need to touch half a circle (overlap by half) to get heating.

The late game requires quite a few of these "other buildings" I have at least 22 workshops, 5 industrial hothouses, 6 infirmaries, 9 hunters dens, 10 child shelters and many more that I'm forgetting about now.

Workshops and hunter's dens are self-heated because of their insulation. I see no reason to build them next to the generator. Better to build them far away and only give them a steam hub when necessary.

[Skirlasvoud]

Like I already posted in another thread, here is the heat map of my cities:

https://i.imgur.com/dr1XVWK.jpg

Those are the only steam hubs I ever place and they only come into play after the outside districts need a little extra support. The first time the temperature hits -60 for example.

The houses around the main core have been supported and kept warm by generator range, bunkhouse -> houses and insulation research all this time. I can afford that sort of research and urban development because I haven't wasted my steel on unnecessary steam hubs.

Everyone needs to research housing and insulation anyway. I'd rather do that directly and skip needing to build additional steam hubs. It's far more effective.


Compared to relying Housing Research and Range upgrades, Steam hubs are a wasteful use of resources to use early on and most people playing on hard figure this out early.

That or you're like me and want to waste resources, like I do when I heat my hunter's dens. :P

[Vulkandrache]

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

Bunkhouses also consume it, and I'd rather build bunkhouses

I would have to check the exact times again but i think im still running on tents well into the Londoners.
Thats like day 12 if you explore "properly". That is leaving the other city until later.
Once you have the coal outpost you have coal up the wazoo for days to come.
In normal mode with its easier temperature curve you can just skip the Bunks altogether.

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

Let's say we're talking about the third circle around the Main Core. I can either fit some 16 houses in the third circle be placing them exactly within this circle... OR I can fit 24 houses by placing them halfway between the third and fourth circle. Houses only need to touch half a circle (overlap by half) to get heating.

I understand what you mean but i dont understand how you get that half-row in the first place.
Each rangeupgrade has reach for exactly one more row of houses.

Originally posted by Skirlasvoud:

The late game requires quite a few of these "other buildings" I have at least 22 workshops, 5 industrial hothouses, 6 infirmaries, 9 hunters dens, 10 child shelters and many more that I'm forgetting about now.

1. In the lategame you have 3 Advanced coal mines with 95% Automatons working 24/7.
I had like 15 Hubs at that point. The entire crater was in range of warmth, because why not.
2. 2 Infirmaries are enough. Child medics, Organ transplant, overcrowdingand max research. 3 is safer but not necessary.
3. Hothouses are the biggest garbage this game has to offer.
At best they give the same amount of food per footprint compared to flying hunters while costing 2 cores each. Why would anyone build these?
4. I finished with 28 workshops, 14 with Automatons.
30some Automatons in total, after the research was done half of them just stood around with nothing to do.


Edit:
Response to the post just above:
https://imgur.com/a/gQV4DjK