Strife: Veteran Edition

Strife: Veteran Edition

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жэф May 6, 2017 @ 6:08am
"Hailed as the ORIGINAL FPS-RPG game" Uh, no.
Heretic, HeXeN.

Give credit where it's supposed to go
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Showing 61-75 of 123 comments
Dark Redshift Mar 2, 2018 @ 7:58am 
Originally posted by "Dabbed Out With My Flaps" Xipho:
Never even heard of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game, and no, it wasn't the first to do it. Hexen and Heretic were. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong and cannot prove it otherwise.

First, what are you referring to? Second, you are wrong and arrogant. If you are referring to PID, Pathways was released in 1993, Hexen and Heretic were 1994 and 1995, after both Pathways into Darkness and it's non RPG sequel Marathon i.e. Doom but better.

Third, Hexen is not an RPG. It only has minor elements of it like this game. I'll take Pathways into Darkness and Strife instead.
Last edited by Dark Redshift; Mar 2, 2018 @ 8:02am
Heretic Mar 11, 2018 @ 12:21pm 
Is this discussion dead yet? Anyway, I noticed the wikipedia page mentions some game called "CyberMage: Darklight Awakening".

"Some reviewers doubted the novelty of the gameplay, pointing out that similar ideas were already used in e.g. CyberMage: Darklight Awakening." -Wikipedia
Originally posted by Heretic:
Is this discussion dead yet? Anyway, I noticed the wikipedia page mentions some game called "CyberMage: Darklight Awakening".

"Some reviewers doubted the novelty of the gameplay, pointing out that similar ideas were already used in e.g. CyberMage: Darklight Awakening." -Wikipedia

i've played it, its alright, not amazing but still pretty good.
However Elder Scrolls and System Shock still beat it to the punch
Evilnapkin Mar 25, 2018 @ 5:40pm 
Elder Scrolls wasn't a shooter, System Shock 1 wasn't an RPG.

I think what makes Strife the first FPS (emphasis on the S) RPG is that it had a progression system that affected character stats. Bungie's Pathways into Darkness had a dialogue system and inventory, but the progression system was floor based and it didn't affect character stats, it gave you access to better weapons.

To my knowledge, the only other FPS that came close to being an RPG was Pathways into Darkness, so given what's been described the claim of being the first FPS RPG on Strife's Steam page is likely correct. By a hair, but if Pathways into Darkness is the only other one that came that close, the Store page claim is correct. Strife is extremely light on the RPG elements though, that isn't part of the claim and doesn't affect its credibility, but felt the need to mention it. It isn't the best shooter or stealth game of its era either, but falling short in all the areas it splits itself amongst is common (but not the rule) for hybrid games.
Last edited by Evilnapkin; Mar 25, 2018 @ 5:44pm
Originally posted by Evilnapkin:
Elder Scrolls wasn't a shooter, System Shock 1 wasn't an RPG.

I think what makes Strife the first FPS (emphasis on the S) RPG is that it had a progression system that affected character stats. Bungie's Pathways into Darkness had a dialogue system and inventory, but the progression system was floor based and it didn't affect character stats, it gave you access to better weapons.

To my knowledge, the only other FPS that came close to being an RPG was Pathways into Darkness, so given what's been described the claim of being the first FPS RPG on Strife's Steam page is likely correct. By a hair, but if Pathways into Darkness is the only other one that came that close, the Store page claim is correct. Strife is extremely light on the RPG elements though, that isn't part of the claim and doesn't affect its credibility, but felt the need to mention it. It isn't the best shooter or stealth game of its era either, but falling short in all the areas it splits itself amongst is common (but not the rule) for hybrid games.

Huh, i actually never played the first system shock, i thought it had a progression system similar to system shock 2. does it not have one at all?
MysteryGourmet Mar 26, 2018 @ 11:54am 
Originally posted by DeckchairVonBananaCamel:
Huh, i actually never played the first system shock, i thought it had a progression system similar to system shock 2. does it not have one at all?

Not really, outside of finding upgraded versions of cyber-enhancements. (for example there's a rear-camera enhancement, but version 1;0 has the camera running at about 2 fps, while later versions give a better refresh rate and a wider field of view)
Xfing Apr 9, 2018 @ 5:05am 
Hubs are not in any way necessary for or indicative of RPGs. Many RPGs had them, but many did not (Diablo?).

And RPG is made primarily by
- being able to upgrade and improve your character's attributes
- being able to take quests from NPCs, complete them, and receive rewards

Hexen didn't have either (collecting parts of a weapon doesn't count as "upgrading your character's attributes", even though Strife had that too).

Hexen was not an RPG hybrid. Strife was much more of one.
Kenshiro3 Apr 10, 2018 @ 12:55am 
Originally posted by Xfing:
Hubs are not in any way necessary for or indicative of RPGs. Many RPGs had them, but many did not (Diablo?).

And RPG is made primarily by
- being able to upgrade and improve your character's attributes
- being able to take quests from NPCs, complete them, and receive rewards

Hexen didn't have either (collecting parts of a weapon doesn't count as "upgrading your character's attributes", even though Strife had that too).

Hexen was not an RPG hybrid. Strife was much more of one.
To be fair Diablo & 2 both had sort of a hub, though it was more of a base camp, that you could go to and access your ♥♥♥♥, get quests, upgrade and return to the dungeon from. So it's not really a good example.
Codester Apr 14, 2018 @ 4:28pm 
Originally posted by svi:
Heretic, HeXeN.

Give credit where it's supposed to go
Also hired guns came out before strife in 1993 so strife being the first is bullsh!t. HG had classes and ranking up. Along with 4 player split screen coop on 1 PC.
Last edited by Codester; Apr 14, 2018 @ 4:30pm
DogMeat Apr 14, 2018 @ 5:08pm 
Originally posted by Codester:
Also hired guns came out before strife in 1993 so strife being the first is bullsh!t. HG had classes and ranking up. Along with 4 player split screen coop on 1 PC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtfDVG9EsY

That isn't a first person shooter. Its a grid-based RPG. A modern example would be Legend of Grimrock.
Codester Apr 14, 2018 @ 5:24pm 
Originally posted by DogMeat:
Originally posted by Codester:
Also hired guns came out before strife in 1993 so strife being the first is bullsh!t. HG had classes and ranking up. Along with 4 player split screen coop on 1 PC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtfDVG9EsY

That isn't a first person shooter. Its a grid-based RPG. A modern example would be Legend of Grimrock.
Well.. I guess so. But fps just means first person shooter technically. Being grid based doesn't change the fact that it is in first person, and is a shooter. But I suppose it's true in a sense. However the enemies move free roaming. They don't move when you do, so you can be hit from the rear or sides real time if you aren't facing them to engage. I see the grid style rpg turn based more often than not. Playing it while growing up I saw it as a first person shooter that was just so old grid based movement was all there was.
Last edited by Codester; Apr 14, 2018 @ 5:34pm
RPG without leveling up = adventure game.
Example, Zelda is 'adventure' where Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest is RPG.
Heretic was just as much fantasy-action- (and to an extent, adventure) as DOOM was, it literally brought almost nothing new to the table game-engine wise, just it's settings/time.
EDIT: Moving/flowing water carrying the player (or not), Wind, and sound-sources in level.

Hexen brought much new things to the table, like extended sector definitions, coordinated pulsing lighting (where it goes on to illuminate a whole hallway one sector at a time). Zdoom map format is actually a 'continuation' of the HMF (Hexen Map Format). Hexen especially noteably brought horizontally moving walls to the Doom engine. This was a first in a Doom-engine game. The hub system of Hexen was also a first for the Doom engine game. Strife built upon this and also had more character progression than Hexen did. You actually could get more health/amor maximums through doing quests (vs just straight up experience points). So yes, Strife was an RPG. When it was new it was totally awesome, and with using the Doom engine, it had the controls we all knew and loved (not to mention, you could basically just write a few new keys down you didn't know and jump right in).

I don't believe it was the first 3d RPG. There's many 3d RPG type games that came before it, but it wasn't real time 360 degree movement, that would have been more along the lines of some Wizardry or Dungeon Master or something similar. You just moved forward or back or turned though in those games. They were even on consoles, but it wasn't the real 3d environment you're used to seeing even by Doom's standards.
It was awesome, though, and still is, and why I bought it. It really took the Doom engine to a whole new level - circa 1995 or so. But, the issue was, barely anyone knew about it and the internet was JUST beginning to be popularized then. Sure, it wasn't as neat looking as Quake, or supporting floor-over-floor (room over room) like Duke 3d Build Engine did (to a point, you couldn't see them both at once), but it sure was a fun, interesting game. Pretty challenging above medium difficulty too. Just don't get lost in the sewer (I swear this happens to me EVERY time. This game and Dark Forces - That game's a rant for another day - ARGH).

Sources: Been editing Doom maps since Ben Morris's DCK 2.? & 2.2f for DOS in 1995 or so.
Yes, it used to take up to 20 minutes on a 486 dx/2 66 to build a huuuuuge Doom level's node-graph and reject map. Ben Morris later went on to make World Craft, for Quake, which became the Valve Hammer Editor. Dos gaming was a hoot - make sure you play TANK WARS.
--Cheers
Last edited by Los.Injurus.Bob.Blunderton; Apr 29, 2018 @ 11:17pm
DogMeat Apr 29, 2018 @ 11:45pm 
Originally posted by Beamng.mapper.Bob.Blunderton:
I don't believe it was the first 3d RPG.
That's not the claim. Its instead that it was the/one of the first hybrid FPS/RPG games. System Shock predates Strife but I wouldn't really call it a FPS/RPG hybrid... it weak on the shooting mechanics and it didn't have much in terms of RPG mechanics... the sequel was the one that really introduced the RPG elements and enhanced the shooting.
Robot Joe May 17, 2018 @ 3:16am 
those two games are LITERALLY fantasy doom, they arn't rpgs lol
Kecuz May 22, 2018 @ 12:07am 
Svi is obviously legally retarded troll. No point in trying to argue with him
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