Witch Stats are useful or not ?

[crusher-666]

Witch investment in Stats works well?
For me in current run this works

Vitality 22
Healing 22
Endurance 24
Wichery 10
Metanoia 10
Luck 10

Wichery Stat seems underwelming +2% per point so 10 points invest = 20% faster
spell .....
With 10 Points in it the small spell reload is ok .The big one 1-2 per Map .
So i see no benefit investing in it .

Luck.....hmm is there really a good benefit in it ?

Metanoia ....got only half of the weapons to lvl 3 and got only 2 Points left on stat distribution so ........

[Otets Oleksii]

Metanoia is useful early game, on later gnosis there are plenty of witchfire. Healing is good, but can be avoided, since we have a Henbane Fetish (if you prefer a different one, then its a must). Luck determines the probability of getting drops like elixirs and ammo, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that it also reduces chances of triggering Calamities when taking damage.
I'm comfortable with these stats on gnosis 4, and I don't feel the need to upgrade further:
Vitality 25
Healing 15
Endurance 25
Wichery 15
Metanoia 15
Luck 14

[Calculus]

I would disagree with metanoia. Its better later on, when lvl up prices start to grow lineary instead of exponentialy.
Also. Luck is a weird stat because it gives you more elixirs, more good shrooms etc, but reduced chance of calamity is bad

[HalleysComet]

Originally posted by Calculus:

I would disagree with metanoia. Its better later on, when lvl up prices start to grow lineary instead of exponentialy.
Also. Luck is a weird stat because it gives you more elixirs, more good shrooms etc, but reduced chance of calamity is bad

You can break a mirror or just let the warden stare at you to trigger calamity.

[Calculus]

Originally posted by HalleysComet:

Originally posted by Calculus:

I would disagree with metanoia. Its better later on, when lvl up prices start to grow lineary instead of exponentialy.
Also. Luck is a weird stat because it gives you more elixirs, more good shrooms etc, but reduced chance of calamity is bad

You can break a mirror or just let the warden stare at you to trigger calamity.

You still reduce amount of calamities per run, warden not always spawn and mirror is only after genosis 3...
So yeah, luck is an awkward stat and you will generally get more pots and ammo from calamity over random drop.

Imo calamity deserves a rework, since currently it punishes hard weaker players and makes better players actually want to get hit in controlled manner

[Otets Oleksii]

Originally posted by Calculus:

I would disagree with metanoia. Its better later on, when lvl up prices start to grow lineary instead of exponentialy.
Also. Luck is a weird stat because it gives you more elixirs, more good shrooms etc, but reduced chance of calamity is bad

Good point. Actually, I have a question about Metanoia. Once the player is comfortable with current stats and doesn't want to level up more, Metanoia seems to become less useful. However, spells are charging when the player absorbs volatile witchfire, and I have an odd feeling that in the late game, my spells recharge way faster with the same Witchery stats. So the question is, does Metanoia indirectly affects spell recharge rate? Or is it not connected to the amount of witchfire absorbed, but to the fact of absorption?

Calamities are in a weird state rn. I was afraid of them during early game, and, many hours later, once the map is clear, I find myself eating poisonous shrooms or jumping on a flaming barrel to trigger it, cause one broken mirror is not fun enough

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Health, anything else is optional or just nice to have (witchery in first place ofc) ;-)

[Huge-O]

Maxed on every stat except healing and luck. Vitality is ok, but not what I would focus. Witchery, Stamina, and Menotia are great. Getting Witchery to a high enough level means you can spam spells. Stamina is good for avoiding damage through dashing and casting spells. Menotia is probably something you should invest in afterwards once level prices go up, but I would throw a few points at it here and there while leveling. Healing is not worth leveling, If you're struggling for heals use henbane. IDK about luck, more loot, but less calamities. Calamity rewards are huge

[Tentacle of Ozric]

Why investing in Metanoia in late game when it's expensive ? I would do the opposite.

Let's say you're investing early on when leveling costs like 5K witchfire, that will give you a flat bonus of 2% for any future gains of Witchfire from now on. To get back your investment of 5K (for simplicity assuming you level it up only once) you need to absorb 250K witchfire. You will most likely absorb that much, since it's still early game and you'll be playing a lot.

Now, let's assume you invest in this stat in late game, when it costs whooping 40K to level up. To get back your investment in this case, you need to absorb 2 000 000 witchfire. This is a lot, considering you're already like level 60-70 and not sure how much you'll be playing.

So you need to think what's more likely to happen for your preyer - getting 250K witchfire starting from low level, or getting 2 million withchfire at end game.

My take would be to invest in it early on or just ignore completely.

(the numbers are made up, I don't remember how much does it cost to level up at the start of the game, but you get the point)

[Huge-O]

Originally posted by Tentacle of Ozric:

Why investing in Metanoia in late game when it's expensive ? I would do the opposite.

Let's say you're investing early on when leveling costs like 5K witchfire, that will give you a flat bonus of 2% for any future gains of Witchfire from now on. To get back your investment of 5K (for simplicity assuming you level it up only once) you need to absorb 250K witchfire. You will most likely absorb that much, since it's still early game and you'll be playing a lot.

Now, let's assume you invest in this stat in late game, when it costs whooping 40K to level up. To get back your investment in this case, you need to absorb 2 000 000 witchfire. This is a lot, considering you're already like level 60-70 and not sure how much you'll be playing.

So you need to think what's more likely to happen for your preyer - getting 250K witchfire starting from low level, or getting 2 million withchfire at end game.

My take would be to invest in it early on or just ignore completely.

(the numbers are made up, I don't remember how much does it cost to level up at the start of the game, but you get the point)

What do you mean playing a lot? If you're running the early maps, your gnosis isn't leveled, and your menotia is only leveled up once you're not making 250k in one run. I would be surprised if new players are even breaking 100k in early runs. You can still level up multiple times though cause it's much cheaper. That's why you don't need it early on. I would also argue you're able to play more at later levels as you're stronger and more likely to full clear the map, gaining more Witchfire. I make an average of about 500k at maxed menotia with foul stimulant. Which while being at level 400+ still means I can level up several times, cost being something like 90k.

[Tentacle of Ozric]

Originally posted by Huge-O:

Originally posted by Tentacle of Ozric:

Why investing in Metanoia in late game when it's expensive ? I would do the opposite.

Let's say you're investing early on when leveling costs like 5K witchfire, that will give you a flat bonus of 2% for any future gains of Witchfire from now on. To get back your investment of 5K (for simplicity assuming you level it up only once) you need to absorb 250K witchfire. You will most likely absorb that much, since it's still early game and you'll be playing a lot.

Now, let's assume you invest in this stat in late game, when it costs whooping 40K to level up. To get back your investment in this case, you need to absorb 2 000 000 witchfire. This is a lot, considering you're already like level 60-70 and not sure how much you'll be playing.

So you need to think what's more likely to happen for your preyer - getting 250K witchfire starting from low level, or getting 2 million withchfire at end game.

My take would be to invest in it early on or just ignore completely.

(the numbers are made up, I don't remember how much does it cost to level up at the start of the game, but you get the point)

What do you mean playing a lot? If you're running the early maps, your gnosis isn't leveled, and your menotia is only leveled up once you're not making 250k in one run. I would be surprised if new players are even breaking 100k in early runs. You can still level up multiple times though cause it's much cheaper. That's why you don't need it early on. I would also argue you're able to play more at later levels as you're stronger and more likely to full clear the map, gaining more Witchfire. I make an average of about 500k at maxed menotia with foul stimulant. Which while being at level 400+ still means I can level up several times, cost being something like 90k.

For your case it might make sense to get it in late game. It all depends on how much witchfire you will absorb after leveling it up.

Let's forget about this specific game and think about the mathematics behind it. Let's say your boss tells you "Hey I have a deal for you. You can pay me an equivalent of your 1 month salary, and from now on I'll increase all your earnings by 2%".
Would it make sense to take the deal when you're an experienced worker making huge money but close to your retirement, or when you're still a junior with low salary ?

[Huge-O]

Originally posted by Tentacle of Ozric:

Originally posted by Huge-O:

What do you mean playing a lot? If you're running the early maps, your gnosis isn't leveled, and your menotia is only leveled up once you're not making 250k in one run. I would be surprised if new players are even breaking 100k in early runs. You can still level up multiple times though cause it's much cheaper. That's why you don't need it early on. I would also argue you're able to play more at later levels as you're stronger and more likely to full clear the map, gaining more Witchfire. I make an average of about 500k at maxed menotia with foul stimulant. Which while being at level 400+ still means I can level up several times, cost being something like 90k.

For your case it might make sense to get it in late game. It all depends on how much witchfire you will absorb after leveling it up.

Let's forget about this specific game and think about the mathematics behind it. Let's say your boss tells you "Hey I have a deal for you. You can pay me an equivalent of your 1 month salary, and from now on I'll increase all your earnings by 2%".
Would it make sense to take the deal when you're an experienced worker making huge money but close to your retirement, or when you're still a junior with low salary ?

I'm sorry but these two things aren't comparable. You're talking about a paid by the hour/salary job v.s a video game that gives you points for each enemy killed, each event completed, and chests opened. Runs are at most 25 minutes, job is 9:00 - 5:00

[Calculus]

Originally posted by Tentacle of Ozric:

Originally posted by Huge-O:

What do you mean playing a lot? If you're running the early maps, your gnosis isn't leveled, and your menotia is only leveled up once you're not making 250k in one run. I would be surprised if new players are even breaking 100k in early runs. You can still level up multiple times though cause it's much cheaper. That's why you don't need it early on. I would also argue you're able to play more at later levels as you're stronger and more likely to full clear the map, gaining more Witchfire. I make an average of about 500k at maxed menotia with foul stimulant. Which while being at level 400+ still means I can level up several times, cost being something like 90k.

For your case it might make sense to get it in late game. It all depends on how much witchfire you will absorb after leveling it up.

Let's forget about this specific game and think about the mathematics behind it. Let's say your boss tells you "Hey I have a deal for you. You can pay me an equivalent of your 1 month salary, and from now on I'll increase all your earnings by 2%".
Would it make sense to take the deal when you're an experienced worker making huge money but close to your retirement, or when you're still a junior with low salary ?

Mathematically speaking, the first increase will start paying off after 50 months. Wouldnt it be better to pay for a certified course that will improve your chances of promotion by 10% per month?

It's basically an oppurtinity cost. Its better to improve your other stats, that will increase your chances against the enemies and boss that will allow you to level up genosis and increase your witchfire gain by much, much more. Metanoia is worth it only later when levelling up becomes more grindy and there are no better ways of increasing it.

Your example also excludes that all other stat upgrades become more expensive, so if you level up metanoia, due to the exponential price growth you will need multiple runs to level up other stats that you might need to defeat the boss.
A perfect player who doesnt need stats to win, will still not buy metanoia and instead focus on endurance and witchery so they can defeat enemies faster, which on lower levels will speed up your levelling more than metanoia and will directly help you with the boss

[Tentacle of Ozric]

Originally posted by Calculus:

Metanoia is worth it only later when levelling up becomes more grindy and there are no better ways of increasing it.

Yes, the game becomes more grindy as you say for sure, but I think at this point it's more likely that you'll get bored and there you go - you're retired, your metanoia investment is lost completely. The bottom line still holds - invest in this stat only if you will get that invested witchfire back. I think for most of the "casual" players it makes sense to invest early on, at least some points. Not saying that "metanoia all in" but I'm sure I'll spend some points on it on my next build. Now I ignored this stat completely, and when I saw that I need to spend 56K on it now, I was like "no way I'm getting this 50K back as 2% increase at this point".

Not sure if other stats mean that much for the early progression (with one exception). On my playthrough they didn't meant that much for sure. I wanted to make it hard for myself, so the first thing I did was to bump luck to 35 since I wanted to see if it improves drops, and only then I started pumping health & stamina. The only stat I will consider "maxing / capping out" asap next time is witchery, since spamming spells is OP as hell.

[Calculus]

Originally posted by Tentacle of Ozric:

Originally posted by Calculus:

Metanoia is worth it only later when levelling up becomes more grindy and there are no better ways of increasing it.

Yes, the game becomes more grindy as you say for sure, but I think at this point it's more likely that you'll get bored and there you go - you're retired, your metanoia investment is lost completely. The bottom line still holds - invest in this stat only if you will get that invested witchfire back. I think for most of the "casual" players it makes sense to invest early on, at least some points. Not saying that "metanoia all in" but I'm sure I'll spend some points on it on my next build. Now I ignored this stat completely, and when I saw that I need to spend 56K on it now, I was like "no way I'm getting this 50K back as 2% increase at this point".

Not sure if other stats mean that much for the early progression (with one exception). On my playthrough they didn't meant that much for sure. I wanted to make it hard for myself, so the first thing I did was to bump luck to 35 since I wanted to see if it improves drops, and only then I started pumping health & stamina. The only stat I will consider "maxing / capping out" asap next time is witchery, since spamming spells is OP as hell.

The issue is.
Later on this 2% is from runs where you get like 100k, so it pays off after 25 runs.
Early on You get it for 1k after a run that gives you 5k, so assuming the prices wong change it pays off after 10 runs... but if we consider lvl up price increase, lets say 2nd lvl up is 3k, then it will pay off after 30 runs if we only consider a single stat increase.

Because of exponential stat price growth the initial cost of metanoia is much higher than it seems, which causes it to be a trap stat.

Imo the best stat for farming early on is endurance, it will increase your success rate and higher stamina cap and regen will cause your runs to be shorter, so it will increase your witchfire gain per minute as well.