The Harley and Deadshot retcons.

[Dollmaker]

My gawd the Deadshot one was even dumber than i though, so rather than the idiotic idea of an impostor, turns out it was potentially one from another universe... so, you made the concept even more idiotic, since theyre inserting the whole Multiverse thing, which is just lazy writing.

Also, Impostor or Alternate Universe still doesnt fix the issue that this "Fake" Deadshot posed as the "real" thing for several years, and nobody questioned it, i mean, being a completely different race would raise some eyebrows, which ironically this game does with the "Real" Deadshot, how come that never happened with the "Fake" one?, doesnt help your case that both essentially have the same background with a daughter and all, making the retcon complete nonsense.

If you wanted a black character that badly, you could have used Bloodsport, who shares similar abilities of being a sharpshooter.


And now we get to Harley, just no, shes no victim, shes a sadistic psycho that did HORRIBLE things out of her own free will, against children even, and she was obsessed with the Joker, even after his death, so trying to downplay all these atrocities as a "phase" is plain stupid, and the same applies to her wardrobe btw, that was her choice, sure had fun trashing the old design ingame didnt it?

Also, while its a thing in the comics and such, her and Ivy had no romantic relationship whatsoever, they only interacted twice in the games, and it was at best, friends or acquaintances, this was before she died, so no BS about "it happened after Knight", besides, Harley even goes out of its way to say Joker was the one and only person she loved in Knight, further disproving this romance ever happened.

Finally, she never got over him, dont even try to lie about that, even in Knight, she clearly still wanted revenge over his death, now, having her move on could definitely work, but not like this, not off-screen and changing her entire character in the process as well, cause this Harley, is not the Arkham version, at all, you compare the two and theres no resemblance, physical nor personality wise.


Anyway, this game is dead already, not even 1k players now, a flop, and it ruins the Arkhamverse, only way to fix this mess, is by pretending it never happened and decanonized it and make future installments with this mindset.

We're already seeing the Arkham games seeing a rise of players just to spite this game and to prove they're superior games in every single aspect, so take it as a lesson Rocksteady.

[Chris P. Bacon]

they could've just said the game wasnt in the arkham verse in general. Bloodsport would've been way cooler than deadshot

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Chris P. Bacon:

they could've just said the game wasnt in the arkham verse in general. Bloodsport would've been way cooler than deadshot

That was also the other option, cause honestly, this game is so disconnected from the established Arkham lore that they put a literal Arkham Experience museum to remind you that it happens in the same universe.

[Chris P. Bacon]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Chris P. Bacon:

they could've just said the game wasnt in the arkham verse in general. Bloodsport would've been way cooler than deadshot

That was also the other option, cause honestly, this game is so disconnected from the established Arkham lore that they put a literal Arkham Experience museum to remind you that it happens in the same universe.

I honestly forget all the time that this game is apart of the verse until someone points it out. Obviously it was one of their selling points.

In my mind, especially since they're doing that overdone multiverse BS in the game. The games we played as batman and this game arent the same world, but thats just me coping tbh

I do enjoy the game, but I realize all the flaws it has. I'll keep playing until i hit that 100% achievements

[Lou]

Nowadays people who are making movies and games about well established franchises or universes tend to not even know the source material it's based on.
It is all about check boxes and reflecting the world we live in today now. Fans love that

[⚔ Kassandra ⚔]

and yet another post by someone who just read facts and never played the game .....

[peremptor]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

My gawd the Deadshot one was even dumber than i though, so rather than the idiotic idea of an impostor, turns out it was potentially one from another universe... so, you made the concept even more idiotic, since theyre inserting the whole Multiverse thing, which is just lazy writing.

Also, Impostor or Alternate Universe still doesnt fix the issue that this "Fake" Deadshot posed as the "real" thing for several years, and nobody questioned it, i mean, being a completely different race would raise some eyebrows, which ironically this game does with the "Real" Deadshot, how come that never happened with the "Fake" one?, doesnt help your case that both essentially have the same background with a daughter and all, making the retcon complete nonsense.

If you wanted a black character that badly, you could have used Bloodsport, who shares similar abilities of being a sharpshooter.


And now we get to Harley, just no, shes no victim, shes a sadistic psycho that did HORRIBLE things out of her own free will, against children even, and she was obsessed with the Joker, even after his death, so trying to downplay all these atrocities as a "phase" is plain stupid, and the same applies to her wardrobe btw, that was her choice, sure had fun trashing the old design ingame didnt it?

Also, while its a thing in the comics and such, her and Ivy had no romantic relationship whatsoever, they only interacted twice in the games, and it was at best, friends or acquaintances, this was before she died, so no BS about "it happened after Knight", besides, Harley even goes out of its way to say Joker was the one and only person she loved in Knight, further disproving this romance ever happened.

Finally, she never got over him, dont even try to lie about that, even in Knight, she clearly still wanted revenge over his death, now, having her move on could definitely work, but not like this, not off-screen and changing her entire character in the process as well, cause this Harley, is not the Arkham version, at all, you compare the two and theres no resemblance, physical nor personality wise.


Anyway, this game is dead already, not even 1k players now, a flop, and it ruins the Arkhamverse, only way to fix this mess, is by pretending it never happened and decanonized it and make future installments with this mindset.

We're already seeing the Arkham games seeing a rise of players just to spite this game and to prove they're superior games in every single aspect, so take it as a lesson Rocksteady.

The sad thing is the game didn't fail because of the retcons and the garbage plot/characterization... it failed because as a live service game this game is woefully undercooked.

It has a garbage gameplay loop. If the gameplay was great the story wouldn't really matter that much. Spiderman 2 proves that crapping on established IPs to make way for new ones is fine if the game is good.

[peremptor]

Originally posted by ⚔ Kassandra ⚔:

and yet another post by someone who just read facts and never played the game .....

Those facts lead directly to most of us not buying the game. But there's always outliers that like what most don't. Enjoy.

[PsionicDiamond]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

so trying to downplay all these atrocities as a "phase" is plain stupid, and the same applies to her wardrobe btw, that was her choice, sure had fun trashing the old design ingame didnt it?

Also, while its a thing in the comics and such, her and Ivy had no romantic relationship whatsoever, they only interacted twice in the games, and it was at best, friends or acquaintances, this was before she died, so no BS about "it happened after Knight", besides, Harley even goes out of its way to say Joker was the one and only person she loved in Knight, further disproving this romance ever happened.

Finally, she never got over him, dont even try to lie about that, even in Knight, she clearly still wanted revenge over his death, now, having her move on could definitely work, but not like this, not off-screen and changing her entire character in the process as well, cause this Harley, is not the Arkham version, at all, you compare the two and theres no resemblance, physical nor personality wise.

You're right.
I wish we got to see more of her 'growth' in the 5 years she spent in the asylum after Knight. The sudden 'yeah I'm over the Joker now' was a bit sudden because of the time skip...

Harley's reaction to her outfit could be explained in a few ways... Maybe it reminds her of a troubled time & she wanted to move on from that period in her life?
Personally I would have loved to have seen her look back at the outfit in more a nostalgic way, maybe even make a comment like 'I bet I can still pull this off.' just so it would give Harley fans hope that we get her iconic Arkham outfits in game.

I'm curious how she's going to react to the Elseworld Joker? I'd love to see snippets of the old Harley when she interacts with him, almost like the 'old' her is trying to break through but she's having some sort of internal battle with it, like we saw with Harleen and Harley in Knight.

That's correct, Ivy & Harley had no romantic relationship in the Arkham series. Certain people speculate something *must have* happened, but honestly they were only friends and nothing more. The only interaction we saw was Harley letting her out of a cell (twice), and this is while Harley is obsessed with Joker... There's just 0 room for the whole Harley x Ivy thing.

[m@gicpanda]

Originally posted by PsionicDiamond:

You're right.
I wish we got to see more of her 'growth' in the 5 years she spent in the asylum after Knight.

https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/11/16/dc-preview-suicide-squad-kill-arkham-asylum

[nobalkain]

It was all done for Marketing, to try and sell it to Arkham Fans. To me its clear this was meant to be a DCU Game. Harley and Deadshot are clearly meant to be DCU SS versions and Flash is Ezra. At some point they where forced to make a mix mash of the DCU and Arkham Universe and this is the mess we got.

[unholyghost842]

Honestly, I kinda feel like if they wanted this Harley to start figuring out that her relationship with Joker was toxic and abusive then shouldn't she be thankful to Batman?

He was the one who took her abuser away from her and let her come to the realisation that it wasn't real love.

(But also Arkham was probably the least abusive Joker towards her. They did almost seem affectionate at times, and yeah he abandoned her to take the fall in the Matter of Family DLC but she honestly seemed more like Lady Macbeth than the victim she's usually portrayed as in the TV show or comics).

(Again. Arkham was probably the most proactive Harley out there. She helped a lot more than ever before and was 100% in the know. Even torturing, drugging, waterboarding and tricking Jason Todd into killing people for the first time. And standing by while he was was disfigured and while her boyfriend was killing children and sowing them together)

[nobalkain]

Originally posted by unholyghost842:

Honestly, I kinda feel like if they wanted this Harley to start figuring out that her relationship with Joker was toxic and abusive then shouldn't she be thankful to Batman?

He was the one who took her abuser away from her and let her come to the realisation that it wasn't real love.

(But also Arkham was probably the least abusive Joker towards her. They did almost seem affectionate at times, and yeah he abandoned her to take the fall in the Matter of Family DLC but she honestly seemed more like Lady Macbeth than the victim she's usually portrayed as in the TV show or comics).

(Again. Arkham was probably the most proactive Harley out there. She helped a lot more than ever before and was 100% in the know. Even torturing, drugging, waterboarding and tricking Jason Todd into killing people for the first time. And standing by while he was was disfigured and while her boyfriend was killing children and sowing them together)

Sadly the DCU and Modern Comic/Animate Harley has been turned into this "Strong Independent" Girl Boss Character. I feel the worst case of this was in the Comic event Heroes in Crisis when she was able to somehow able to Escape from the Trinity while she was right in front of them. People like to claim Batman has crazy amounts of Plot Armor, but Harleys puts his to shame.

[unholyghost842]

Originally posted by nobalkain:

Originally posted by unholyghost842:

Honestly, I kinda feel like if they wanted this Harley to start figuring out that her relationship with Joker was toxic and abusive then shouldn't she be thankful to Batman?

He was the one who took her abuser away from her and let her come to the realisation that it wasn't real love.

(But also Arkham was probably the least abusive Joker towards her. They did almost seem affectionate at times, and yeah he abandoned her to take the fall in the Matter of Family DLC but she honestly seemed more like Lady Macbeth than the victim she's usually portrayed as in the TV show or comics).

(Again. Arkham was probably the most proactive Harley out there. She helped a lot more than ever before and was 100% in the know. Even torturing, drugging, waterboarding and tricking Jason Todd into killing people for the first time. And standing by while he was was disfigured and while her boyfriend was killing children and sowing them together)

Sadly the DCU and Modern Comic/Animate Harley has been turned into this "Strong Independent" Girl Boss Character. I feel the worst case of this was in the Comic event Heroes in Crisis when she was able to somehow able to Escape from the Trinity while she was right in front of them. People like to claim Batman has crazy amounts of Plot Armor, but Harleys puts his to shame.

I haven't liked Harley since new 52, when her costume became much more vulgar and her attitude even worse.

Ironically trying to take away her victim hood kind of destroyed her character, turning her into a near sociopathic deadpool rip off.

I feel like it could be done if you wanted to make her repent her ways and try to become a hero. But you have to address what she did. You can't just ignore it. Even in the original Huntress(Helena Wayne) comics Selina went to prison to serve her debt to society before Bruce married her when she got out and had a family with her.

Harley never really has that. She mostly just pushes the blame onto someone else and insists she's changed but I've never even seen a comic (other than White Knight) where she's confronted by what she did and has to apologise to some of her victims. That would be a great sign of how she actually has changed. But they never did it.

[m@gicpanda]

Some of these comic fans.

https://i.imgur.com/7BpudqZ.jpeg

[nobalkain]

Originally posted by unholyghost842:

Originally posted by nobalkain:

Sadly the DCU and Modern Comic/Animate Harley has been turned into this "Strong Independent" Girl Boss Character. I feel the worst case of this was in the Comic event Heroes in Crisis when she was able to somehow able to Escape from the Trinity while she was right in front of them. People like to claim Batman has crazy amounts of Plot Armor, but Harleys puts his to shame.

I haven't liked Harley since new 52, when her costume became much more vulgar and her attitude even worse.

Ironically trying to take away her victim hood kind of destroyed her character, turning her into a near sociopathic deadpool rip off.

I feel like it could be done if you wanted to make her repent her ways and try to become a hero. But you have to address what she did. You can't just ignore it. Even in the original Huntress(Helena Wayne) comics Selina went to prison to serve her debt to society before Bruce married her when she got out and had a family with her.

Harley never really has that. She mostly just pushes the blame onto someone else and insists she's changed but I've never even seen a comic (other than White Knight) where she's confronted by what she did and has to apologise to some of her victims. That would be a great sign of how she actually has changed. But they never did it.

White Knight was some of the best development of her and the Joker. I have found that some of the best stories that DC has done since Death Metal has been Elseworlds. I was actually hoping that its inclusion in this Game would mean we would see some of those Characters and Worlds used, but sadly it just seems to be an excuse for them to make their own versions of Characters instead.

They should have the setting of this Game been its own Original World, and then used the Elseworlds to bring in Existing ones. If they did that then I think this Game would have had a much better shot with DC Fans, regardless of what form of DC Media they came from. Season 1 could have been Arkham, Season 2 DCU, Season 3 DCAU, so on and so forth. Every DC Fan could have been pulled in by making a Season be set in a World they where Fans of.