Mega Man had sometimes worse level design then Mighty No. 9

[Blackened Halo]

Yes, it really had. Yesterday, I was playing through Mega Man 1 - 6 and found out that while Mega Man 1 had an amazing level desing and difficult stages, Mega Man 2 was much weaker game with only a half of stages on par with Mega Man 1 and the rest was much much linear. Mega Man 3, 4, 5 and 6 had similar problems like Mega Man 2, with even less "good levels".

So while Mighty No. 9 isnt something special, it is still fun and enjoyable game (in terms of level design) and it isnt as bad game as a lot of mega-man-crying-babies here claim. On the other hand, if you do stages in the right order, boss battles are incredibly easy. So...

...so no, Mighty No. 9 has its faults and it isnt better than the Mega Man series, but when it comes to quality of the level design, it isnt as far from the Mega Man series, as many here thinks it is.

[LemonRush7777]

引用自 hunterd1：

引用自 Fenrir007：

Yet here we all, with a game that is more mediocre than any other Megaman games. Sure, the megaman games all had flaws, but they also had their strenghts. This game, however, seems to have only accumulated flaws. Look at the laughable bosses, for example. Or the horrid level design, which also do not match with the gameplay mechanics for a megaman style game (which is what Inafune promised to deliver instead of a mediocre speedrunner). Look at the weapons and how crappy most of them are. I mean, really.

I love how everyone ignores how the entire megaman series, even x, and other games when you have the boss weakness makes EVERY boss a joke. Literally megaman 2, the one everyone has glory boners for, had 1 hit kos on the bosses and a completely broken boss power that 1 hit koed the boss you got it from.

side not this thread gives me hope for humanity.

You have to know, guess or experiment which weapon is good against which boss. You also have to kill the first one yourself. There was a time when we all played that game for the first time, and we didn't know which weapons were good against which robot masters. Subsequent runs, after you know which order is the most optimal one for efficiency, can focus on completion times or any other criteria like a buster-only run for added challenges. There are also other bosses beyond the Robot masters.

Meanwhile, MN9 has only the base robot bosses +1, and they are all a joke with the basic weapon, easily killable from your very first virgin playthrough. Get the difference?

[Miraglyth]

引用自 Fenrir007：

What I meant is that the bosses are so laughable that you can beat them all with your initial weapon and still breeze through them. The same cannot be said about Megaman's bosses, especially on Megaman 2.

Now that we've cleared that up, hunterd1's point about how weaknesses in MM2 make the bosses a joke too returns to the playing field.

引用自 Fenrir007：

Let us also not forget that there were more than simply the robot masters as bosses in the Megaman games.

You mean like Round Digger, K9, Nameless and the Trinities ?

Heck, you might also want to include the unique minibosses of ice pong, the Radio Tower helicopter, M.O.M. and Round Borer too.

引用自 Fenrir007：

Meanwhile, MN9 has only the base robot bosses +1, and they are all a joke with the basic weapon, easily killable from your very first virgin playthrough. Get the difference?

I really must disagree here. Before working out their patterns I died quite a few times to Battalion in the first beta (when he was easier too), and Cryosphere in the second. I can't remember struggling too much with Dynatron in the third, but Pyrogen got me a couple of times in the special demo.

Because of the amount of content/challenges in the game, the learning process is a very brief portion and I feel you might be downplaying that element.

Or rather, let's focus on the suggestion that MM2 bosses are still challenging buster-only even when you know their pattern. Doesn't that come from having to outlast them? To me that sounds like it falls foul of the main complaint I hear about MN9 bosses ("too much health").

Besides, if you wanted tough bosses, MN9 still delivers since Hard difficulty changes their attack patterns to be tougher. And although not quite the same, Ray's mechanic makes some bosses quite tricky also.

[Lunaedge]

引用自 Fenrir007：

they are all a joke with the basic weapon, easily killable from your very first virgin playthrough.

Sure, have your average player go on blind fights against Pyrogen, Cryosphere, Aviator and Brandish and tell me how that goes.

[AURORA BOREALIS!?]

引用自 abusable critter：

引用自 Fenrir007：

they are all a joke with the basic weapon, easily killable from your very first virgin playthrough.

Sure, have your average player go on blind fights against Pyrogen, Cryosphere, Aviator and Brandish and tell me how that goes.

I dunno. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore player, though probably a little above "average", and didn't find them THAT difficult. Yeah I still died a couple of times trying to figure out patterns, but I did find them easier than my previous experiences with Mega Man bosses.

[TheShadowHatter]

The only weapon I ever needed for bosses was Brandish, because he would deflect projectiles and he'd do damage across the board. I even beat the final boss with barely a scratch on me, even when it starts shooting up purple goop like a fountain I was able to keep hitting the boss with zero effort put into it.

[Idbuddy]

引用自 TheShadowHatter🎩：

The only weapon I ever needed for bosses was Brandish, because he would deflect projectiles and he'd do damage across the board. I even beat the final boss with barely a scratch on me, even when it starts shooting up purple goop like a fountain I was able to keep hitting the boss with zero effort put into it.

Don't they all do damage across the board just in varying degrees? Also funny enough brand's power is the one I used the least. Just had no real use for it tbh as mn3 is the first boss I cleared.

[TheShadowHatter]

引用自 hunterd1：

引用自 TheShadowHatter🎩：

The only weapon I ever needed for bosses was Brandish, because he would deflect projectiles and he'd do damage across the board. I even beat the final boss with barely a scratch on me, even when it starts shooting up purple goop like a fountain I was able to keep hitting the boss with zero effort put into it.

Don't they all do damage across the board just in varying degrees? Also funny enough brand's power is the one I used the least. Just had no real use for it tbh as mn3 is the first boss I cleared.

but like you said, varying degrees. I used Brandish and it gets the job done for me with ease because I can deflect most attacks and get virtually no damage, while dishing out a lot of damage with quick slashes.

[Idbuddy]

引用自 TheShadowHatter🎩：

but like you said, varying degrees. I used Brandish and it gets the job done for me with ease because I can deflect most attacks and get virtually no damage, while dishing out a lot of damage with quick slashes.

Fair point, I guess by the time I got to brand his power set just threw off my rhythm.

[TheShadowHatter]

引用自 hunterd1：

引用自 TheShadowHatter🎩：

but like you said, varying degrees. I used Brandish and it gets the job done for me with ease because I can deflect most attacks and get virtually no damage, while dishing out a lot of damage with quick slashes.

Fair point, I guess by the time I got to brand his power set just threw off my rhythm.

Yeah everyone has their own way, I just ended up finding my super early.

[Miraglyth]

It's a little off-topic but I've been listening to various podcasts about the game while at work, usually the complainy variety, and it's comical how most of them discuss how the mighty powers are either amazing or useless.

Yet... five of those powers are regulars in both lists! Pyro, Dyna, Mic, Brand and Shade have all had their weapons considered both amazing and useless by various commentators so far. So it's a little amusing to hear the complaint of polarity is so prevalent when the majority of weapons are in contention.

Really people can only seem to agree on the weapons of Cryo and Bat (both amazing) and Avi (useless). Which sure could have been improved on but that level of balance is hardly worse than most MM games.

[Idbuddy]

引用自 Buffalo Soldier：

Yeah I still died a couple of times trying to figure out patterns, but I did find them easier than my previous experiences with Mega Man bosses.

Also late as hell on this one but you might have a bad point of reference on your own gameplay skill, as there were quite a few people who got wrecked by pyrogen and cryo.(at the elast those two) as for some reason people were only picking up on audio cues and not physical ones.

[Miraglyth]

I also wonder how many people are equating the abilities of their 25+ year old selves now with their less capable 10-year old selves playing a Mega Man game 15+ years ago.

[TheShadowHatter]

引用自 Miraglyth：

I also wonder how many people are equating the abilities of their 25+ year old selves now with their less capable 10-year old selves playing a Mega Man game 15+ years ago.

Probably nobody, because that's not really a thing you should be doing for any reason.

[Idbuddy]

引用自 TheShadowHatter🎩：

引用自 Miraglyth：

I also wonder how many people are equating the abilities of their 25+ year old selves now with their less capable 10-year old selves playing a Mega Man game 15+ years ago.

Probably nobody, because that's not really a thing you should be doing for any reason.

but it is something people can do without realising. I.e. they may think they are just ok/average at a genre but accumulated experience actually makes them high end of the above average to well above, above average spectrum. sometimes it takes an individual without as much experience/skill to put your own skill level into a proper perspective.

[JeffMakesGames]

I look forward to trying this megaman game clone. It looks like a fair challenge.

I know people are upset with the developers promising a lot, and ended up wasting quite a sum of money, but do note that the game originally only asked for 900,000, and ended up with more than 4x that. Hey, the money would probably go to all of our heads a little.

By the way, how much does it REALLY cost to make a megaman game?