Runway Lineup (Non ILS)

[common]

Hi,

So I am new to all this, I know there is the FS guide within the game and I have had a bit of a read (will do more, yes)

I have been trying a short flight from Brisbane International to Gold Coast (Australia). Using GPS and VFR. I can fly fine when using ILS as, well, it does majority of the work lining you up once you punch the details into the GPS - Vectors etc.

So what I am wanting to do is learn more of the VFR as mentioned between those two airports.

Issue: I can never get the runway lined up at Gold Coast Airport - again, no ILS. No matter what I do I get taken to the side of the runway, and I know the GPS won't line one up with the runway etc, but I am still struggling. So am after some tips.

I just did the flight again and when I was close I turned off AP and the plane went spastic, up down, left, right like a total knobhead.

So, any tips?

[klionh87]

Well, first of all, what kind of controls are you using? Keyboard,gamepad, joystick, yoke? Do you have separate rudder?

Second, if you are you using anything other than the "Clear Weather" preset, you probably have winds, and those need to be accounted for when lining up for landing. You'll probably want to practice without at first.

I also would suggest going through Machado's flight lessons, those for Student Pilot and Private Pilot at least. You'll find them in Learning Center-->Lessons.

[common]

I am using keyboard. I have worked it out somewhat. Setting the VOR1 indicator to the runway direction seems to work, and intercepting headings etc.

Dunno what is cauing it though, turning off Autopilot caused the plane to dip to the left or right and can't save it.

[pirateinparadise]

It sounds like you have a crosswind...

[klionh87]

If you are using a keyboard, ensure that Autorudder is on in the realism options. It's just going to be messy otherwise.

Keyboard controls work as trims. That is, the control surfaces don't go back to neutral on their own after your press the keys. If you hit the 4(tn) key, the left aileron moves up/right moves down a little, and then they stay there, inducing left bank. To cancel that, you'll need to hit the 6(tn) key. Same with 8 and 6 with the elevons.
Also many single-engine prop planes tend to have a tendency to turn even with the controls at neutral, especially at low speeds. You'll need to correct for that.

Does that help in controlling the plane after turning off AP? If not, is it possible that it is stalling? If the AP has set too high pitch trim to maintain altitude at low speed, that could happen. If you don't correct that, it may explain losing control. You would probably notice that though, warnings will sound :D


Again, try going through the lessons in the Learning Center. They help a lot in the beginning...and don't bother with the tutorial missions.

[common]

Hey klionh87, Thanks for the reply.

I turned off Ap and levelled out the plane, that fixed it. As you said it was set it in a way. So since I fiddled with it then turned on AP it was reverting back to what I had set it to before engaging AP.

So I know to keep an eye on that now.

Now I am working out how to manually line up a runway using headings etc ones that the GPS does not list so have to do manually. Hard.

[klionh87]

Don't forget that you can just look out the windshield and line up visually if you are doing a VFR approach! Use Shift+Enter and Shift+Backspace to control the height of your point of view if you can't see the runway from the cockpit.

Perfect headings are not so crucial unless you are flying IFR and in actual IMC ;)

[JanVfsx]

line up (and wait) is the terminology for Departure and NOT for Arrival. Get into the lessons of FSX on the page LEARNING CENTER Lesson 6: Landings. WHen there is no ILS , you must do a visual Approach and watching the PAPI lights.

[pirateinparadise]

Originally posted by common:

Now I am working out how to manually line up a runway using headings etc ones that the GPS does not list so have to do manually. Hard.

Lining up is not as hard as you think. As you approach the runway, watch the lines made by the 2 edges of the runway. Follow these pictures:

If the edges look like this -> \ \ you are too far left, steer right a little.

If they look like this -> / / you are too far to the right, steer left.

If they look like this -> / \ you are lined up perfect. Just keep them that way until you hit the numbers.

Don't overcomplicate it. Keep your eyes on the runway, make small steering corrections, and start lining up a mile or so out in a small plane, 5 or more in a bigger, faster one. Don't wait to the last minute. As soon as you can discern the edges of the runway, start making corrections. By the time you get to where you start using KLM149's advice (it's good advice, pay attention to it), all you'll really need to worry about is your airspeed and altitude.

I can tell that you've never used Flight Simulator 1.0 have you? LOL. Whippersnapper..

[bobbi]

If you use your mouse to drag your flight path in the flight planner to one of the intersections in alignment with the runway at YCBG/Gold Coast the autopilot should guide your aircraft into alignment with the runway. For Gold Coast the intersections would be BCGNM for runway 14 or BCGNH for runway 32. For other destinations or the other runways at YCBG (17 and 35) there might not be suitably positioned waypoints (indicated by the triangle emblems). Some GPS units might have approaches included in their database that include intersections in alignment with the destination runways.

Before the advent of GPS pilots may have used the Gold Coast VOR (CG) to guide them to a point where they could see the airport and make minor adjustments to follow the extended runway centerline. This would have involved tuning a navigation radio to the VOR frequency and selecting an apropriate radial on the istrument panel's OBI or HSI.

[common]

Hey Bobbi,

Thanks for the reply, and everyone else.

I noticed when trying to lang at Gold Coast, I was unable to come in on runway 14 I think it was. There was no option for that in the GPS. It only gave me the south to north option which was runway 3 I think, so runway 14 on the opposite end of it.

I have never lined my flight plan up to intersections. I have before moved it out so it looks in line with the runway, but actually using the intersections on the map, no.

I will try and use one of those next time.

[yellowjacket]

Originally posted by common:

Hey Bobbi,

Thanks for the reply, and everyone else.

I noticed when trying to lang at Gold Coast, I was unable to come in on runway 14 I think it was. There was no option for that in the GPS. It only gave me the south to north option which was runway 3 I think, so runway 14 on the opposite end of it.

I have never lined my flight plan up to intersections. I have before moved it out so it looks in line with the runway, but actually using the intersections on the map, no.

I will try and use one of those next time.

Not sure what you are looking at but there are many FSX approaches with multiple transitions into Gold Coast (YBCG)

GPS, RNAV's, VOR, NDB and VOR / NDB Suffix Letters which are circle to land approaches to any runway. They should all be in your GPS if you have a properly working FSX default or 3rd party airport.

None of the approaches will place you on center line of a runway. All of the approaches are off center a few degrees by design. It is up to you the pilot to align with the runway at the proper Terminal_Waypoint and published minimum altitude.

Click link for a picture of the FSX listed approaches in the GPS database

http://s13.postimg.org/atpjv5ulz/fsscr000.jpg

[common]

That is the approach I have been using, and it puts me to the side of the runway, yes I know it won't line me up with it proper. Well, some of them do but not in this case ay YBCG. Thing is when I get close and disengage the AP to try and manually line up with it, I get thrown all over the place.

Even after I have levelled it out manually before engaging AP earlier. I always end up to the side of the runway when wanting to come in at Runaway 14. Can come in from the south side easy enough but that requires heading out over the ocean for a bit to turn back in.

[pirateinparadise]

Are you checking the wind direction on approach? You need to compensate for that as you are coming in.

[yellowjacket]

Originally posted by common:

That is the approach I have been using, and it puts me to the side of the runway, yes I know it won't line me up with it proper. Well, some of them do but not in this case ay YBCG. Thing is when I get close and disengage the AP to try and manually line up with it, I get thrown all over the place.

Even after I have levelled it out manually before engaging AP earlier. I always end up to the side of the runway when wanting to come in at Runaway 14. Can come in from the south side easy enough but that requires heading out over the ocean for a bit to turn back in.

There are several issues causing you problems.

The 1st is using the keyboard (which can be done) but you have to disengage the altitude hold around 1000 ft and then manually trim the elevators. Keyboard elevator control and trim elevator settings get cross controlled when using autopilot. When you diseagage the autopilot the plane will pitch up or down very quickly. Give yourself plenty of altitiude to establish and correct controlled rate of descent.

The 2nd problem that causes the plane to get thrown all over the place as you discribe it is caused by the thermals that FSX modeled around airports and mountains. You can eliminate most of the effects if you do not want thermals to throw your plane all over the place when landing.

Once you have FSX running and you are sitting on runway 14 select the dropdown menu (alt key). click Options ---> Settings ---> Display ---> and now click on the Weather Tab.

1. Place a checkmark in the box that says "Disable turbulence and thermal effects on aircraft"

This will soften the edges of the thermals so they do not act so violent on the airplane. In some areas it will not eliminate them completely.

2. In the "Thermal visualization" window change None to Schematic.

Select the OK box and this will now allow you to see all the corkscrew visual thermals around the airport and out over the water that are effecting your plane when landing.

Go back into the Weather Tab and click the Help button. You will get more information about thermals used in FSX and the different types that are modeled.

[bobbi]

You should be able to reach your destination runway's centerline AND be pointed towards the runway using the autopilot. If you want to be realistic by selecting the approach during the flight you might have to research the operation of the GPS in the included flight simulator learning center. Until you learn how to cross the Initial Approach Fix at a reasonable angle you might need te guidance of the simulated Air Traffic Controlers (which would be required at many real world airports). It's been a while since I used those features, so I can't offer a whole lot of advice on using them without some research.

Whatever you experience level you will need to start turns before reaching a waypoint. The distance depends on your ground speed and the angle of the turn you'll be making. The sharper turns will require a longer distance. You might need to switch the autopilot from GPS hold to heading (gyrocompass) hold during the turn. When the turn is nearly 180° you might need an approximately 45° turn (using heading hold) well before reaching the waypoint followed by a 225° turn in the opposite direction (or a 135° turn followed by flying straight a few minutes and another 90° turn), creating a flight path resembling a big question mark.

It WILL be easier learning to land with the small single engine general aviation planes before attempting to land faster planes like the Learjets, multi engine turboprop commuter planes or jet passenger/cargo transports. With all but the smallest planes attempting to land with anything remotely resembling a full fuel load will require some combination of a nose high attitude that makes seeing the runway over the instrument panel difficult or impossible and a higher approach speed that makes decelerating enough to turn off the runway a chalenge.

Many pilots fly a rectgular "pattern" around a field that lacks an on field tower controler. They enter the pateren from the outside with an approximately 45° turn looking carefully for an aircraft allready flying the pattern. They complete the downwind (parallel to the runway) leg with the landing point about 135° left of the aircraft centerline (ccw pattern, other side where obstructions or nearby other field necessitate a cw pattern). As they complete the down wind leg they configure the aircraft for landing (flaps gear etc) then make a 90°decending turn (and announce it on the radio). Continuing to decend, when the landing point is about 45° from the aircaft centerline they turn towards the runway (and announce they are turning final on the radio) looking carefully for aircraft perfoming a long straight approach. Prop planes usually fly a pattern 1500 feet Above Ground Level (AGL) and jets at 2000 ft AGL (a larger rectangle that allows them to see the prop planes). The straight portions of the pattern help pilots see planes that would be hidden behind wings during a turn.