Is it worth it to buy FS X for the flight training lessons?

[Avenger2000]

I am a beginner and finished the 8 lessons in MSFS 2020. I read that the lessons in FS X are much more and go into detail. I think they were created by a Rod Machado, Is it worth it to buy FS X to do the lessons and then go back to MSFS 2020 for everyday flying? I am really a beginner at this so any advice would be appreciated.

[Beelzebub]

I wouldnt say so. The lessons of FSX are good, but you are better of just buying a book, watching many YT-videos or reading stuff online. FSX lessons teach you the basics, but they dont teach you that much more. if you are able to run MFS than use MFS and learn using the things I listed above.

[shadowgravy]

The supporting read-ahead articles that go with each mission are informative. The hands-on flying lessons with Rod are only partially effective though. One FSX limitation is you can fail a tutorial if you don't follow the scripted headings, speed and power settings exactly. Sometimes it takes several attempts to successfully complete the required tasks.

[Avenger2000]

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

The supporting read-ahead articles that go with each mission are informative. The hands-on flying lessons with Rod are only partially effective though. One FSX limitation is you can fail a tutorial if you don't follow the scripted headings, speed and power settings exactly. Sometimes it takes several attempts to successfully complete the required tasks.

Ah, that can be a problem. If it’s too strict it can get frustrating.

[TextRich]

I found the FSX lessons very helpful. I learned a lot more about aviation from it. You do not have to complete them in order if, for example, a checkride is too hard. Plus FSX have missions and some of them are tutorials in themselves, particularly for default FSX aircraft. Finally if a MSFS update breaks something temporarily, you will have FSX to fall back on. ;-)

So should you at the $25 normal retail price? If you feel you really benefit from flying and getting feedback from your flying, go for it. I do not think MS is discounting it at 50% anymore (the DoveTail add-ons are still discounted, though). I am sure MSFS will eventually get a GA tutorial add-on that will be more in depth than the one it has now, but the question is when and from who.

Another idea would be to get the old MSFS 2004 instead. The tutorials are mostly identical - the only thing missing is a in-sim badge reward for completing each of the five courses. In addition you would be using 2-D cockpits instead of having FSX's 3-D virtual cockpits available as well. You should be able to find it for $10-$15.

[shadowgravy]

MSFS 2004 isn't worth the "discount" IMO. It was a great sim in its time, but FSX was an improvement on it in so many areas including flight modeling and GUI that I really can't recommend MSFS 2004 today. FSX has the same tutorials; and if you want to continue using FSX as a training platform there are commercial addons that can be purchased for it that make use of FSX's native SimConnect. For example, the A2A Simulations Accu-Sim line[a2asimulations.com] of aircraft which many of us hope will be in the new MSFS someday.

[Avenger2000]

Originally posted by TextRich:

I found the FSX lessons very helpful. I learned a lot more about aviation from it. You do not have to complete them in order if, for example, a checkride is too hard. Plus FSX have missions and some of them are tutorials in themselves, particularly for default FSX aircraft. Finally if a MSFS update breaks something temporarily, you will have FSX to fall back on. ;-)

So should you at the $25 normal retail price? If you feel you really benefit from flying and getting feedback from your flying, go for it. I do not think MS is discounting it at 50% anymore (the DoveTail add-ons are still discounted, though). I am sure MSFS will eventually get a GA tutorial add-on that will be more in depth than the one it has now, but the question is when and from who.

Another idea would be to get the old MSFS 2004 instead. The tutorials are mostly identical - the only thing missing is a in-sim badge reward for completing each of the five courses. In addition you would be using 2-D cockpits instead of having FSX's 3-D virtual cockpits available as well. You should be able to find it for $10-$15.

Are the lessons very hard (or strict as the other poster put it)? I’m finding lessons like add on VFR missions on the 2020 version are tough because it doesn’t keep the objectives on screen. Also you only really have a small amount of time to do the command or you will be off course. Thanks!

[shadowgravy]

Here is the breakdown of the FSX Lessons:

Student Pilot
-Student Pilot Lessons Overview
-Lesson 1: Straight and Level Flight
-Lesson 2: Turns
-Lesson 3: Climbs and Descents
-Lesson 4: Slow Flight
-Lesson 5: Takeoffs
-Lesson 6: Landings
-Lesson 7: Your First Solo

Private Pilot
-Private Pilot Lessons Overview
-Solo Flight: Taxiing
-Lesson 1: Stalls
-Lesson 2: Steep Turns
-Solo Flight: Steep turns
-Lesson 3: VOR Navigation
-Lesson 4: The Traffic Pattern
-Solo Flight: Traffic Pattern
-Lesson 5: Air Traffic Control
-Private Pilot Checkride

Instrument Pilot
-Instrument Rating Lessons Overview
-Solo Flight: Scanning the Instruments
-Lesson 1: The VOR Approach
-Solo Flight: VOR Approach
-Lesson 2: The ILS Approach
-Solo Flight: ILS Approach
-Lesson 3: Holding Patterns
-Solo Flights: Three Ways to Enter Holding
-Instrument Rating Checkride

Commercial Pilot
-Commercial Pilot Lessons Overview
-Lesson 1: Complex Aircraft Checkout
-Lesson 2: Shortfield Takeoffs and Landings
-Solo Flight: Shortfield Takeoff
-Solo Flight: Shortfield Landing
-Solo Flight: Crosswind Landing
-Lesson 3: Emergency Procedures
-Solo Flight: Engine failure
-Commercial Pilot Checkride

Airline Transport Pilot
-ATP Lessons Overview
-Lesson 1: Jet Checkout
-Solo Flight: Jet Takeoff
-Solo Flight: Jet Landing
-Lesson 2: Descents and Energy Management
-Solo Flight: Descending from Cruise
-Lesson 3: Full ILS Approach
-Solo Flight: Full ILS Approach
-ATP Checkride

[TextRich]

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

MSFS 2004 isn't worth the "discount" IMO. It was a great sim in its time, but FSX was an improvement on it in so many areas including flight modeling and GUI that I really can't recommend MSFS 2004 today. FSX has the same tutorials; and if you want to continue using FSX as a training platform there are commercial addons that can be purchased for it that make use of FSX's native SimConnect. For example, the A2A Simulations Accu-Sim line[a2asimulations.com] of aircraft which many of us hope will be in the new MSFS someday.

I very much agree with you. :-) I have FS2004 too but other than installing it in my cheap travel laptop for simming while on vacations, I don't use it. I only mention it because the OP implied he was considering buying an older MSFS just for its lessons. I like your contention that FSX has some excellent aircraft that we are still waiting to see in MSFS.

Originally posted by Avenger2000:

]Are the lessons very hard (or strict as the other poster put it)? I’m finding lessons like add on VFR missions on the 2020 version are tough because it doesn’t keep the objectives on screen. Also you only really have a small amount of time to do the command or you will be off course. Thanks!

To be honest, the only one lesson I remember giving me a hard time was the instrument checkride. It is much more strict than what I have heard it is like in real life. Everything else are very much passable, especially if you have a halfway decent flight controller. Do the lessons in order and you will progress. I knew almost jack about aviation other than combat sims until several years ago, and right now I am a student pilot pursuing a PPL. I don't know a sim with built-in lessons anywhere near FSX's depth. Prepar3D definitely doesn't have lessons. X-Plane 11 has C172 GA lessons only last time I heard.

My only caveat is that a couple of lessons are buggy or badly programmed. If one struggle comes up, do a search in this forums and you will find tips and workarounds for specific lessons, including a few I wrote many moons ago.

[Avenger2000]

Originally posted by TextRich:

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

MSFS 2004 isn't worth the "discount" IMO. It was a great sim in its time, but FSX was an improvement on it in so many areas including flight modeling and GUI that I really can't recommend MSFS 2004 today. FSX has the same tutorials; and if you want to continue using FSX as a training platform there are commercial addons that can be purchased for it that make use of FSX's native SimConnect. For example, the A2A Simulations Accu-Sim line[a2asimulations.com] of aircraft which many of us hope will be in the new MSFS someday.

I very much agree with you. :-) I have FS2004 too but other than installing it in my cheap travel laptop for simming while on vacations, I don't use it. I only mention it because the OP implied he was considering buying an older MSFS just for its lessons. I like your contention that FSX has some excellent aircraft that we are still waiting to see in MSFS.

Originally posted by Avenger2000:

]Are the lessons very hard (or strict as the other poster put it)? I’m finding lessons like add on VFR missions on the 2020 version are tough because it doesn’t keep the objectives on screen. Also you only really have a small amount of time to do the command or you will be off course. Thanks!

To be honest, the only one lesson I remember giving me a hard time was the instrument checkride. It is much more strict than what I have heard it is like in real life. Everything else are very much passable, especially if you have a halfway decent flight controller. Do the lessons in order and you will progress. I knew almost jack about aviation other than combat sims until several years ago, and right now I am a student pilot pursuing a PPL. I don't know a sim with built-in lessons anywhere near FSX's depth. Prepar3D definitely doesn't have lessons. X-Plane 11 has C172 GA lessons only last time I heard.

My only caveat is that a couple of lessons are buggy or badly programmed. If one struggle comes up, do a search in this forums and you will find tips and workarounds for specific lessons, including a few I wrote many moons ago.

Thanks. Does the game come with a ground manual for the missions? Steam version that is. Perhaps a pdf file? I think I’m going to try it. Seems like there are a good variety of lessons.

[Avenger2000]

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

Here is the breakdown of the FSX Lessons:

Student Pilot
-Student Pilot Lessons Overview
-Lesson 1: Straight and Level Flight
-Lesson 2: Turns
-Lesson 3: Climbs and Descents
-Lesson 4: Slow Flight
-Lesson 5: Takeoffs
-Lesson 6: Landings
-Lesson 7: Your First Solo

Private Pilot
-Private Pilot Lessons Overview
-Solo Flight: Taxiing
-Lesson 1: Stalls
-Lesson 2: Steep Turns
-Solo Flight: Steep turns
-Lesson 3: VOR Navigation
-Lesson 4: The Traffic Pattern
-Solo Flight: Traffic Pattern
-Lesson 5: Air Traffic Control
-Private Pilot Checkride

Instrument Pilot
-Instrument Rating Lessons Overview
-Solo Flight: Scanning the Instruments
-Lesson 1: The VOR Approach
-Solo Flight: VOR Approach
-Lesson 2: The ILS Approach
-Solo Flight: ILS Approach
-Lesson 3: Holding Patterns
-Solo Flights: Three Ways to Enter Holding
-Instrument Rating Checkride

Commercial Pilot
-Commercial Pilot Lessons Overview
-Lesson 1: Complex Aircraft Checkout
-Lesson 2: Shortfield Takeoffs and Landings
-Solo Flight: Shortfield Takeoff
-Solo Flight: Shortfield Landing
-Solo Flight: Crosswind Landing
-Lesson 3: Emergency Procedures
-Solo Flight: Engine failure
-Commercial Pilot Checkride

Airline Transport Pilot
-ATP Lessons Overview
-Lesson 1: Jet Checkout
-Solo Flight: Jet Takeoff
-Solo Flight: Jet Landing
-Lesson 2: Descents and Energy Management
-Solo Flight: Descending from Cruise
-Lesson 3: Full ILS Approach
-Solo Flight: Full ILS Approach
-ATP Checkride

Thanks for this! Really helpful.

[shadowgravy]

The only PDFs I can find in the directory are basic startup guides and the key commands cards. FSX is more like an intranet or Wiki. Information on a lot of different topics are stored as pages within the sim and accessible numerous ways including your kneeboard while you are flying. For the lessons, when you click on one you'll first be taken to an article written by Rod that explains the concepts you'll practice. There are illustrations. At the bottom of the article you can click to fly the lesson.

Actually, I just found the FSX lessons on the internet. It looks like they are copied directly from the game: http://krepelka.com/fsweb/learningcenter/lc_index_lessonsmain.htm

[TextRich]

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

The only PDFs I can find in the directory are basic startup guides and the key commands cards. FSX is more like an intranet or Wiki. Information on a lot of different topics are stored as pages within the sim and accessible numerous ways including your kneeboard while you are flying. For the lessons, when you click on one you'll first be taken to an article written by Rod that explains the concepts you'll practice. There are illustrations. At the bottom of the article you can click to fly the lesson.

Actually, I just found the FSX lessons on the internet. It looks like they are copied directly from the game: http://krepelka.com/fsweb/learningcenter/lc_index_lessonsmain.htm

Yes shadowgravy, the domain's owner copied and pasted the files directly from the uires directory. The files can be read offline with any web browser.

Avenger, the missions also have briefings, maps, and so on. The Steam edition is nearly identical to boxed FSX, so all the pertinent missions and lessons are there. There is not a print manual - use shadowgravy's link or FSX:SE's uires directory to read without running FSX:SE.

[kalnon]

Personally I think it's totally worth it but I'm not a real pilot, I'm just a huge aviation enthusiast that can only afford to fly a desk. I go through them every so often to brush up on more proper procedures. The lessons are quite extensive for a flight simulator software. This is one thing FS2020 is completely lacking.

I also still play FSX often even though I have FS2020. So many great aircraft to fly that FS2020 doesn't have plus all of the mods and addons I've added over the years help make it more fun. For me, it's just as fun as it was back when it was released in 2006.

[Avenger2000]

Darnnit I already got stuck in lesson one. It’s very early in the lesson where it says
Rod is flying: Check the trim control under the heading indicator.

It says you can press pause P if you want. I press pause and unpause and fiddle with the trim wheel via the mouse but the lesson doesn’t proceed. It seems some people on the net have had the same problem but I didn’t see a definitive answer. I am using the new keeyboard binding scheme where ‘P’ is pause but someone said a long time ago that the game is looking for Ctrl+[ for pause and Ctril+] for unpause. But that was the old binding I guess. Any ideas?

[shadowgravy]

I unscientifically tested tutorial mission #1 on my secondary computer. P for Pause, then P again to unpause works for me. I toggled several times. The Rod talking audio is muted (probably last set to run through headphones) so I closed out the mission after approximately one minute. I will test again later.