Game and Trello Update Discussion Thread

[Drake]

EDIT: Due to demand for this to become a general update thread, for both game updates and the updates to the developers' Trello page. I decided to expand it.

Game Update

BEAM Team Games eredeti hozzászólása:

The next update will be out by the end of this week.. just dotting the i's and crossing the t's :)

https://twitter.com/BEAMTeamGames/status/577301289861668864

The devs have stated they planned to do monthly updates. Their reasoning for it is that they want updates to be larger. Rather than more frequent updates, that only include minor content additions.

Beam Team Games eredeti hozzászólása:

Updates are likely to come monthly as anything less can be really restricting to our development. We know players will agree that they’d prefer much larger and meaningful updates monthly than random ‘bits n bobs’ weekly. This timeframe doesn’t include hotfixes, which we can release anytime to address issues in between updates.

They don't want to give precise dates on the updates however, as the backlash from missing a scheduled update date can potentially be greater than backlash from not having one.

Trello Update

So the Trello page updated yesterday. So I wanted highlight that it happened, as well as establish an opportunity to discuss the new concepts. I'm not certain if this should go into this section or Ideas and Suggestions, as it is more talking about things they are in the process of implementing, rather than proposed new ideas. But on a side note, this also means that the next update is likely to come soon. As the last time the Trello page saw a big update, the game was updated shortly after. But I may just be over-analyzing things there.

https://trello.com/b/8MTqueJV/stranded-deep-features-and-concepts

So to summarize, here are the new concepts added to the page.
I haven't updated this thread in a while. But here are the new things on the Trello page, for those that haven't seen them, and weren't included in the last update.

BUILDABLE RAFTS - 2x2 or whatever
CAVE SYSTEMS
BIOME BILLBOARDS / LOD's - Create a camera render system where distant islands/sea forts are captured and used as a billboard.
SHARK AI - Difficulty settings - might be good during early access to find a nice balance
WORLD SEED - Enter a custom seed number on the laptop in the intro / or during world creation
COCONUT BUOY - To Mark Shipwrecks/ caves - can turn into a 'lighthouse' with a lantern?
LOOT ITEMS RANDOM DURBILITY
ABANDONED ISLANDS
WRECKED CARGO SHIPS
LOST SHIPPING CONTAINERS
GENERATOR - Belt, fuel cannister, etc etc
SAIL - Cloth, sticks, palm leafs, rope. Attach to raft
MILITARY SUPPLIES

I like the idea of making larger rafts. But I hope there will be some sort of drawback to doing so. Such as the boat moving slower. And that if it is too big, it might break apart if you run aground.

Cave systems will definitely be a cool addition. Chances are we might find some wreckage or items, that may have been washed into them by the currents and got stuck.

The billboard thing, if I am understanding it correctly, will be a big improvement. It will allow players identify islands from a distance, and also help with navigation. As we will be able to start using the islands as landmarks.

Shark AI settings seems like a good idea. Especially, given their primary use for it will be for testing. It will help to establish a good balance.

World seeds. while really a minor element, will allow players to revisit previous world or share worlds with their friends. It will be especially good during updates, when players might have to start a new game. As they can still reuse(to a degree) their previous world, even if the work they had done within it won't be present.

Coconut buoys seem a little odd. I don't see a buoy constructed of sticks, coconuts, and lashings; holding together that well against the currents. But it would be useful as portable markers at sea, presuming there will be someway to anchor it in place.

Finding items at various stages of durability will add a lot to realism. And it will do a lot for balancing out the gear we can find in the ocean. As it will still make crafted equivalents a viable option.

Abandoned islands, wrecked cargo ships, and shipping containers seem like a cool idea. Though I fear that they may make things too easy to survive. I would expect all of these to have a plethora of supplies.

I see they are going the convert a motor into a mechanical generator route with the generator. I just wonder what they intend to power. I see on the Trello page a picture of a generator powering a work light. But that seems to be a lot of effort for just electric lighting. So I hope that it will work for several more things.

Sails will be a big improvement. They will make a far more realistic alternative to the boat motor. for faster travel. And will add a facet of gameplay, as the player will have to account for the direction and intensity of the wind to effectively utilize it. Such as raising the said when the wind is at one's back, and lowering it when the wind is too powerful or when you need to paddle against it.

I'm not sure how I feel about military supplies. There is good possibilities of finding things like tools, MREs, clothing, ect. But I hope this doesn't become an avenue to introduce firearms into the game.

But how does everyone else feel about the Trello update?

[Tex]

Regarding the story and voice acting, I think these two aspects come hand in hand by brining immersion to this already immersive title. Aslong as the story does not conclude in any form or fashion (being rescued), I will be on board... or not on board (pun intended)

Torches... ehh... removing the need for batteries... ehh.... not a fan. I enjoy running around in the dark being scared. Do not take that away from me.

Compass waypoints, definitely not a fan. One of the best things this game has going for it is the realism and immersion (Hence the great amount of detail and finesse put into the lack of HUD).
Adding a compass that was bestowed on the character by the GPS gods contradicts everything.

Anything they add regarding animations, item interaction, crafting concepts, ETC... will be gold I am sure. I have faith in these developers... but my faith starts to spazz out when they mention *throws up in mouth* ...waypoints... (Tom Hanks would be heart broken)

His heart is broken, I called him.

Regarding the skill tree, it makes sense that a player gets better at doing certain things over time. Returning to the movie Cast away, after serveral years Tom becomes a survival expert. I would say his "skill tree" was completed. BUT! if they start adding skill tree rewards like crabclaw palm tree grappling hooks and not a normal REALISTIC player progression system then I am out (Only said grappling hook because the developers "skill tree" inspiration came from Dying Light)

[TheLittlestTeapot]

Skill Tree? Permanent torches? no batteries? waypoints?

A sad day for Stranded Deep.

[Omen3608]

Wolfgang eredeti hozzászólása:

Skill Tree? Permanent torches? no batteries? waypoints?

A sad day for Stranded Deep.

That remains to be seen. I don't think they are trying to build a FPS now...

[SoMeOnE_the_oDD]

Flashlights

A lot of these updates sound like temporary measures to make the game more workable. I'm sure their purpose in pushing the flashlight off-screen was to replicate the standard "F" toggle flashlight that we're used to as players. I have a big pile of them on my island but have yet to use them because there's nothing I can do while using them.

Compass Waypoints

The same idea applies to compasses since our visual navigation is somewhat impared at this stage of the game. Adding the feature allows them to play around with ideas as the game progresses but it doesn't necessarily mean they will leave it as it is. Almost all mini-maps are unrealistic in their very existence but they are meant to simulate your character's inherent ability to remember their life-long surroundings. We as players don't have the ability to recall the world as vividly as you would were you actually stranded. Reloading a previous save is useless if I can't quickly recall the world I'm playing in, especially since it's so random.

Setting aside convenience, I am still in love with the manual cartography required by this game. I would prefer that the other navigational holdups (island thumbnails) be dealt with than that the compass be augmented. Knowing that the audience for this game includes many people who would be turned off by that gameplay, I will be content knowing that the modding community will likely patch any compromises to suit my needs.

Skill Trees

My original idea for skills is still sticking strong in my mind. Rather than building up endlessly from level 1--the way we expect skills to function--I would prefer an approach that builds towards and away from proficiency like pouring water in a cup with a small hole. Outside of eagle scouts and discovery channel hosts, very few people would likely be able to piece together a functional axe from the first ingredients they find. After a dozen tries, you would still be unable to produce an axe that stays together long enough to chop down a tree without several more attempts.

Since we clearly need some way to represent this, I would feel more comfortable knowing that your experience builds towards a standard proficiency based on your recent activities. Like a shampoo, as long as you keep using it your hair will improve but as soon as you stop it will return to normal. Picture the equalizer on a song, with skills rising and falling around the most recent tones. Frequencies that have been silent fade to empty.

In a way, this would prevent people from manipulating the system to build long-term inhumanly proficient skills. It would ensure that nothing lasts forever, so a month spent building your dream house will make you rather rusty at spear fishing. On top of all that, it would allow the developers to create a more complex long-term system to allow more experienced survivors to maintain more skills for a greater length of time (the best swordsman at his worst will still defeat the worst swordsman at his best).

[Drake]

SoMeOnE_the_oDD eredeti hozzászólása:

Flashlights

A lot of these updates sound like temporary measures to make the game more workable. I'm sure their purpose in pushing the flashlight off-screen was to replicate the standard "F" toggle flashlight that we're used to as players. I have a big pile of them on my island but have yet to use them because there's nothing I can do while using them.

Yeah, that is a good point, in regard to not being able to do anything else while holding one. But as an alternative, perhaps the devs could make it so we can dual-wield certain tools. Not in the sense of holding two axes. But that we have one dominant hand that can be used for most things, while things that don't require that much dexterity, such as a torch, can be wielded in the non-dominant hand.

SoMeOnE_the_oDD eredeti hozzászólása:

Compass Waypoints

The same idea applies to compasses since our visual navigation is somewhat impared at this stage of the game. Adding the feature allows them to play around with ideas as the game progresses but it doesn't necessarily mean they will leave it as it is. Almost all mini-maps are unrealistic in their very existence but they are meant to simulate your character's inherent ability to remember their life-long surroundings. We as players don't have the ability to recall the world as vividly as you would were you actually stranded. Reloading a previous save is useless if I can't quickly recall the world I'm playing in, especially since it's so random.

Setting aside convenience, I am still in love with the manual cartography required by this game. I would prefer that the other navigational holdups (island thumbnails) be dealt with than that the compass be augmented. Knowing that the audience for this game includes many people who would be turned off by that gameplay, I will be content knowing that the modding community will likely patch any compromises to suit my needs.

I would be fine with that, so long as it was a temporary measure until more natural points of navigation (such as more accurate island silhouettes) are implemented. It is the alpha stage after all, so certain placeholders are expected. I just would prefer it waypoints don't become a permanent thing.

[SoMeOnE_the_oDD]

Dual wielding might sound more agreeable to your heightened sense of realism if you describe it as an off-hand slot. The compass and flashlight occupying the same position is a good idea. It would actually restrict you from using too many hands too.

A map embedded in a compass would be pretty creative, even if it's not realistic. I don't doubt that there will be variable realism mods for this game. I can imagine we might fall more towards the "hardcore" end of this particular game, not because we're good at it but because we dislike shortcuts.

[Krescentwolf]

--Compass & Waypoints
As far as compass and waypoints go... I've always felt that having the compass be its own separate inventory object wasn't a good design choice... especially since we're usually lugging supplies back to our base island.

I rather like what H1Z1 did, in that making a simple compass was -very- easy... but you only got -very- basic directions out of it. 'N' only instead of say... 'NNE.' I say give our watches a basic N/S/E/W compass (and what survival watch doesnt have one, right?) and let the inventory version keep its very exact nature.

This removes the need for waypoints, which are really just a player crutch in trying to blindly find their way around, and still gives the found compass a reason to exist.


--Torches and Flashlights
I'm on the fence on this. Honestly... I almost -never- use torches and flash lights right now. They take up precious inventory space, have limited use, and the actual situations where they're necessary are rather few. While convenience lends itself to the simple 'F' toggle, that also makes it too easy... unless the flashlight or torch became a rare object, like the goggles and fins.

--Fishing
The rod idea sounds nice, at first glance, till you realize it basically entails that you stand around and do nothing for a while... (Oops you spilled your beer! +1 Internet cookie to those that get that reference)

The game already forces a lot of idle time during rain/fog/rowing so I dont think adding to the pile is a good idea.

Rather, since we're out and about so much, I think a crab-trap or fish-net style item would work better. It might only catch one or two fish to compensate for its ease of use... but thats for balancing anyway. Also, lemme put this out there.... the game -needs- a meat drying rack! Lemme hang some fish and make some jerky! :)

[SoMeOnE_the_oDD]

Krescentwolf eredeti hozzászólása:

...

I've seen mention of compass watches several times now and it is probably the most convenient version available, though the notion that we've brought a survival watch with us is questionable. I think there's a certain draw to the actual representation of the compass though and I'm glad you suggested the watch as an addition to get us through until we find an actual compass. Already being used to the actual compass makes it hard to imagine the use I might get out of the simplified letter-only version but I like that it's restricted.

I don't think we'll have to worry about item rarity later on. The game is big on having many many sunken ships but our content is still quite limited. Simply limiting the chance of finding anything at all in a container or even of finding those containers in the first place would help a lot. Once players have long term goals, we'll be able to get a better sense of whether we should be finding items sooner or later. I personally have never used any of my dozen or so flashlights.

Passive traps and nets would be more enjoyable than fishing for sure. I actually like spearing stuff a lot. It's like a fun mouse reflex game where I always win. Racks are fairly consistent suggestions here so I'd expect to see those too. Maybe not jerky but something to get them off the sand.

[SoMeOnE_the_oDD]

Sorry if I'm over-posting. I feel more productive when I attempt to design games than when I actually play them, especially on weekdays.

Possible Skills

• Breath: The most acceptable idea I have is the length of time the player can hold their breath. The more time you spend swimming, the longer you can stay under.
  
  
• Skin Health: This one's a bit strange but it should be at least an internal measurement if not an external one. On first arriving you'd expect to be burned repeatedly but you might get used to it over time or find natural protections. The longer you spend out in the sun, the lower your skin health might be. Find a hat or work late.
  
  
• Physical Condition: I have always hated "strength" and "dexterity" labels. They may do a great job at describing the abstract quality of physical fitness but they are rarely adapted to the game at hand. Here, hundreds of miles from dice and calculators, it does no good to break these attributes down into immersion breaking units. Instead, your ability to swim long distances, to dredge up heavier bits of wreckage from the sea floor, to make tighter lashings, to spear faster, chop harder, and to row steadier should all be contained in this single skill. In order to function, though, it requires a daily measure of energy. Working through the night or without proper nutrition is not an option. If you want to put in a hard day's work, you need to eat well every day. That means going a bit further than coconut and sardines and actually getting some cooked Archer into your system.
  
  
• Botany and Marine Biology: I'm really looking forward to a day when I'll have to discover for myself what each fish is good for and what I can do with different plants. Knowing which leaves weave the most durable baskets, which plant fibers and roots tie the best knots, how quickly plants grow, and how easily they are replanted are all things we should have to learn for ourselves along the way. Having this information catologued in our virtual memory so that we can recognize individual plants and examine their properties in our on-screen inventories would depend on our Botany skill. Likewise, being forewarned about a poisonous fish would be immensely helpful but is unfortunately not something a fresh survivor should know much about.
  
  
• Other Knowledge-Based Skills: There are a lot of things that could be restricted by how well you know the ingredients. Knowing woodcraft well enough to actually produce the quality of materials necessary to make certain rafts, shelters, and containers isn't free, even for players who know they exist. Knowing how to treat wounds, how to balance your health, how to tie knots, how sailing works, and how to spot useful bits of debris in a wreckage are all things that require some degree of experience to unlock. Balancing unlockable knowledge for players who already know the answers would be a challenge.
  
  
• Cooking, Food Preparation, and Fire Maintainance: Let's not kid ourselves, taste means nothing with death sitting on your doorstep. Cooking on an island is just as much about making the most of your fire and getting the most nutrition out of your food as it is about making something tasty. These skills ought to be combined to represent their shared function in your island life.
  
  
• Proficiency: This could go in many many directions. Consider spear fishing. I'm sure you're only going to stun a lot of the fish you hit, partly because you didn't pick a sharp enough spear head but also because you didn't thrust with proper form. You'll likely chum the waters with the torn bodies of your potential meals and send more than a few fish off with a bit less flesh to go about. Actually spearing a fish and getting ahold of it should take practice. Making your spear in the first place should take practice. Cooking your fish on the fire should take practice. Making a fire should take practice.

[Gamer2456]

Not to of a fan of the skill tree idea unless figure away to do it without losting what already have to keep you feeling like your actual there.

[Tex]

Krescentwolf eredeti hozzászólása:

I rather like what H1Z1 did, in that making a simple compass was -very- easy... but you only got -very- basic directions out of it. 'N' only instead of say... 'NNE.' I say give our watches a basic N/S/E/W compass (and what survival watch doesnt have one, right?) and let the inventory version keep its very exact nature.

Well since we are thinking like this now... I would rather have the new Apple Watch. I can play music while being eaten by sharks, I can use the detailed calender to set up a island masterbating vs cooking schedule, I can break up with my girl-friend since long distance relationships never workout, and best of all... It has a compass.

[SoMeOnE_the_oDD]

Except that it will either die from water damage or battery loss. And the signal would prevent you from breaking up with your girlfriend.

I think the point was to provide a restricted version for players who have yet to find a compass. Something like the microwave screen resolution N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW and nothing more.

[Krescentwolf]

Friendly Jon eredeti hozzászólása:

Well since we are thinking like this now... I would rather have the new Apple Watch. I can play music while being eaten by sharks, I can use the detailed calender to set up a island masterbating vs cooking schedule, I can break up with my girl-friend since long distance relationships never workout, and best of all... It has a compass.

Haha! Nothing like listening to 'Eye of the Tiger' while dueling with sharks. Though I don't imagine those Apple Watches are very... water resistant.

Still... What else do you call a watch that -tracks- 'days survived' other than a survival watch? I know my watch doesn't track my vitals! :P I'd say a basic compass is pretty believable... plus it helps bridge that initial 'dammit Im completely lost' feeling when you're just starting out.

Just a simple N/S/E/W setup until you find the real compass.

[Tex]

SoMeOnE_the_oDD eredeti hozzászólása:

Except that it will either die from water damage or battery loss. And the signal would prevent you from breaking up with your girlfriend.

I think the point was to provide a restricted version for players who have yet to find a compass. Something like the microwave screen resolution N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW and nothing more.

Are you telling me I need to get married? You sound like my mom.
---

Would this microwave numerical screen be in the form of a HUD? or..?

[Tex]

Krescentwolf eredeti hozzászólása:

Friendly Jon eredeti hozzászólása:

Well since we are thinking like this now... I would rather have the new Apple Watch. I can play music while being eaten by sharks, I can use the detailed calender to set up a island masterbating vs cooking schedule, I can break up with my girl-friend since long distance relationships never workout, and best of all... It has a compass.

Haha! Nothing like listening to 'Eye of the Tiger' while dueling with sharks. Though I don't imagine those Apple Watches are very... water resistant.

Still... What else do you call a watch that -tracks- 'days survived' other than a survival watch? I know my watch doesn't track my vitals! :P I'd say a basic compass is pretty believable... plus it helps bridge that initial 'dammit Im completely lost' feeling when you're just starting out.

Was just teasing to keep this thread going - one of the few I am actually enjoying to read.