Can we get a story from the nazi perspective?

[tux]

Its the same boring plot every ww2 game. Muh faschism reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ebil notsiiii

[UK_Widowmaker]

Day of Defeat...you can play as Germans...there are loads of WW2 (and WW1) shooters where you can....so go and be one (you'll lose of course....twice)

[adam west]

Originally posted by UK_Widowmaker:

Day of Defeat...you can play as Germans...there are loads of WW2 (and WW1) shooters where you can....so go and be one (you'll lose of course....twice)

that mp, not story game

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by panzermeyer32:

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

Clearly you've never seen Das Boot, the Enemy Below, Cross of Iron, and that new War of Mine film.

The enemy below is a film from 1957! - So no, I have not seen it or War of Mine.
The 2 other movies you mention were not Hollywood productions. Das Boot is a German film based on a German book. COI was a co-production of german, american and jugoslavian heritage.
You're just proving what I wrote - Check your facts before posting.

-Can you mention ANY video game that had a german soldier as the protagonist?

Too bad I still proved you wrong. The Enemy Below is a Hollywood production that puts the Germans in a more sympathetic light than other films of the period. One could say the same about the Cruel Sea, a British production, for it's line mentioning that the German sailors are no different than those in the Royal Navy, or potentially even Fury, where it shows primarily SS soldiers and Nazis being killed and shows a scene of a Wehrmacht soldier (IIRC) being executed by the Americans. While Das Boot is German (and was actually badly recieved in Germany for it's portrayal of German submariners being too 'sympathetic') and Cross of Iron was actually British, it still protrayed the average German soldier much nicer than most films. War of Mine I believe is Dutch.

Ultimately, most war films put the Germans as a silent (and occasionally faceless) enemy, with the bulk of the film dedicated to the protagonists rather than the motivations of the men on the other end of their rifles. Dunkirk shows no Germans until the very end, as does the Dambusters. The Longest Day focuses on German High Command, so obviously has use of Nazi type characters, and the Battle of Britain features Hermann Goering, and shows the Luftwaffe pliots as eager young men ready to do their bit rather than Nazis, which I suppose draws comparisons to their British and Commonwealth counterparts.

Company of Heroes had a German campaign. But it had no mention of the Nazis at all and ended with the caption "the regime that controlled Germany". Which was frankly as insulting as making a character in a film a die hard Nazi when in reality he wasn't (Sink the Bismark, otherwise an excellent and occasionally sympathtic(in terms of showing the Kreigsmarine sailors) film, makes this mistake with Adrimal Lutchens, who in reality was not a Nazi, yet in film he is visably moved when he recieves a birthday wish from Adolf Hitler himself.)

If the Germans ever wish to get a game, it needs to have the Nazis and their symbolism. Which hits it's first snag, unable to be advertised in Germany without censorship. It needs to sympathetically protray the Germans and make the distinction between the average German and a die hard Nazi, but it must not separate the two. Not all Germans were Nazis, but I imagine most were proud to have the party in power after they took all of Western Europe in a year. I imagine many Germans were not fond of Communism either so that should be shown as well. It needs to show that the Nazis were evil, and potentially that not all Germans were clean when it came to war crimes. Too many people these days are falling under that stupid mentality.
And 1 final problem is that it may just not make compelling gameplay. Video games and games in general all rely on one thing, winning. But the Germans didn't win.

It could be done, but the risk is very great, and if they end up attempting to dehumanise the enemy (especially the Soviets) by drawing attention to whats bad about them instead (a la CoH2) they'll get a lot of flak. So they'll need a good writer and a skilled director to not make it too forced, insulting or weak. It's been done on film, so chances are it can be done in games.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

Originally posted by panzermeyer32:

The enemy below is a film from 1957! - So no, I have not seen it or War of Mine.
The 2 other movies you mention were not Hollywood productions. Das Boot is a German film based on a German book. COI was a co-production of german, american and jugoslavian heritage.
You're just proving what I wrote - Check your facts before posting.

-Can you mention ANY video game that had a german soldier as the protagonist?

Too bad I still proved you wrong. The Enemy Below is a Hollywood production that puts the Germans in a more sympathetic light than other films of the period. One could say the same about the Cruel Sea, a British production, for it's line mentioning that the German sailors are no different than those in the Royal Navy, or potentially even Fury, where it shows primarily SS soldiers and Nazis being killed and shows a scene of a Wehrmacht soldier (IIRC) being executed by the Americans. While Das Boot is German (and was actually badly recieved in Germany for it's portrayal of German submariners being too 'sympathetic') and Cross of Iron was actually British, it still protrayed the average German soldier much nicer than most films. War of Mine I believe is Dutch.

Ultimately, most war films put the Germans as a silent (and occasionally faceless) enemy, with the bulk of the film dedicated to the protagonists rather than the motivations of the men on the other end of their rifles. Dunkirk shows no Germans until the very end, as does the Dambusters. The Longest Day focuses on German High Command, so obviously has use of Nazi type characters, and the Battle of Britain features Hermann Goering, and shows the Luftwaffe pliots as eager young men ready to do their bit rather than Nazis, which I suppose draws comparisons to their British and Commonwealth counterparts.

Company of Heroes had a German campaign. But it had no mention of the Nazis at all and ended with the caption "the regime that controlled Germany". Which was frankly as insulting as making a character in a film a die hard Nazi when in reality he wasn't (Sink the Bismark, otherwise an excellent and occasionally sympathtic(in terms of showing the Kreigsmarine sailors) film, makes this mistake with Adrimal Lutchens, who in reality was not a Nazi, yet in film he is visably moved when he recieves a birthday wish from Adolf Hitler himself.)

If the Germans ever wish to get a game, it needs to have the Nazis and their symbolism. Which hits it's first snag, unable to be advertised in Germany without censorship. It needs to sympathetically protray the Germans and make the distinction between the average German and a die hard Nazi, but it must not separate the two. Not all Germans were Nazis, but I imagine most were proud to have the party in power after they took all of Western Europe in a year. I imagine many Germans were not fond of Communism either so that should be shown as well. It needs to show that the Nazis were evil, and potentially that not all Germans were clean when it came to war crimes. Too many people these days are falling under that stupid mentality.
And 1 final problem is that it may just not make compelling gameplay. Video games and games in general all rely on one thing, winning. But the Germans didn't win.

It could be done, but the risk is very great, and if they end up attempting to dehumanise the enemy (especially the Soviets) by drawing attention to whats bad about them instead (a la CoH2) they'll get a lot of flak. So they'll need a good writer and a skilled director to not make it too forced, insulting or weak. It's been done on film, so chances are it can be done in games.

thats why nazi is touchy subject , noone touches game about it with 10meter foot pole and if game touches they subject they steralize entire planet , twice

its not they want to , we had games who cover the topic , its becouse media likes blaming , people like blaming , and everyone likes guilt free kiling

Today even kiling zombies is becoming no longer politicaly correct so you have to have nazi zombies...(this sentance is a joke but you get the bigger picture)

you need vilain who is not human and how media today , think nazi are , hence you dont see almost any games , and very little movies about "german side"

[UK_Widowmaker]

Cross of Iron was a good film, which told the story from the German side.

[Zuleica]

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

Originally posted by panzermeyer32:

The enemy below is a film from 1957! - So no, I have not seen it or War of Mine.
The 2 other movies you mention were not Hollywood productions. Das Boot is a German film based on a German book. COI was a co-production of german, american and jugoslavian heritage.
You're just proving what I wrote - Check your facts before posting.

-Can you mention ANY video game that had a german soldier as the protagonist?

Too bad I still proved you wrong. The Enemy Below is a Hollywood production that puts the Germans in a more sympathetic light than other films of the period. One could say the same about the Cruel Sea, a British production, for it's line mentioning that the German sailors are no different than those in the Royal Navy, or potentially even Fury, where it shows primarily SS soldiers and Nazis being killed and shows a scene of a Wehrmacht soldier (IIRC) being executed by the Americans. While Das Boot is German (and was actually badly recieved in Germany for it's portrayal of German submariners being too 'sympathetic') and Cross of Iron was actually British, it still protrayed the average German soldier much nicer than most films. War of Mine I believe is Dutch.

Ultimately, most war films put the Germans as a silent (and occasionally faceless) enemy, with the bulk of the film dedicated to the protagonists rather than the motivations of the men on the other end of their rifles. Dunkirk shows no Germans until the very end, as does the Dambusters. The Longest Day focuses on German High Command, so obviously has use of Nazi type characters, and the Battle of Britain features Hermann Goering, and shows the Luftwaffe pliots as eager young men ready to do their bit rather than Nazis, which I suppose draws comparisons to their British and Commonwealth counterparts.

Company of Heroes had a German campaign. But it had no mention of the Nazis at all and ended with the caption "the regime that controlled Germany". Which was frankly as insulting as making a character in a film a die hard Nazi when in reality he wasn't (Sink the Bismark, otherwise an excellent and occasionally sympathtic(in terms of showing the Kreigsmarine sailors) film, makes this mistake with Adrimal Lutchens, who in reality was not a Nazi, yet in film he is visably moved when he recieves a birthday wish from Adolf Hitler himself.)

If the Germans ever wish to get a game, it needs to have the Nazis and their symbolism. Which hits it's first snag, unable to be advertised in Germany without censorship. It needs to sympathetically protray the Germans and make the distinction between the average German and a die hard Nazi, but it must not separate the two. Not all Germans were Nazis, but I imagine most were proud to have the party in power after they took all of Western Europe in a year. I imagine many Germans were not fond of Communism either so that should be shown as well. It needs to show that the Nazis were evil, and potentially that not all Germans were clean when it came to war crimes. Too many people these days are falling under that stupid mentality.
And 1 final problem is that it may just not make compelling gameplay. Video games and games in general all rely on one thing, winning. But the Germans didn't win.

It could be done, but the risk is very great, and if they end up attempting to dehumanise the enemy (especially the Soviets) by drawing attention to whats bad about them instead (a la CoH2) they'll get a lot of flak. So they'll need a good writer and a skilled director to not make it too forced, insulting or weak. It's been done on film, so chances are it can be done in games.

And, like I said, what developer would take the risk? The payout for the risk isn't any greater than the payout for a less risky endevor.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by Zuleica:

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

Too bad I still proved you wrong. The Enemy Below is a Hollywood production that puts the Germans in a more sympathetic light than other films of the period. One could say the same about the Cruel Sea, a British production, for it's line mentioning that the German sailors are no different than those in the Royal Navy, or potentially even Fury, where it shows primarily SS soldiers and Nazis being killed and shows a scene of a Wehrmacht soldier (IIRC) being executed by the Americans. While Das Boot is German (and was actually badly recieved in Germany for it's portrayal of German submariners being too 'sympathetic') and Cross of Iron was actually British, it still protrayed the average German soldier much nicer than most films. War of Mine I believe is Dutch.

Ultimately, most war films put the Germans as a silent (and occasionally faceless) enemy, with the bulk of the film dedicated to the protagonists rather than the motivations of the men on the other end of their rifles. Dunkirk shows no Germans until the very end, as does the Dambusters. The Longest Day focuses on German High Command, so obviously has use of Nazi type characters, and the Battle of Britain features Hermann Goering, and shows the Luftwaffe pliots as eager young men ready to do their bit rather than Nazis, which I suppose draws comparisons to their British and Commonwealth counterparts.

Company of Heroes had a German campaign. But it had no mention of the Nazis at all and ended with the caption "the regime that controlled Germany". Which was frankly as insulting as making a character in a film a die hard Nazi when in reality he wasn't (Sink the Bismark, otherwise an excellent and occasionally sympathtic(in terms of showing the Kreigsmarine sailors) film, makes this mistake with Adrimal Lutchens, who in reality was not a Nazi, yet in film he is visably moved when he recieves a birthday wish from Adolf Hitler himself.)

If the Germans ever wish to get a game, it needs to have the Nazis and their symbolism. Which hits it's first snag, unable to be advertised in Germany without censorship. It needs to sympathetically protray the Germans and make the distinction between the average German and a die hard Nazi, but it must not separate the two. Not all Germans were Nazis, but I imagine most were proud to have the party in power after they took all of Western Europe in a year. I imagine many Germans were not fond of Communism either so that should be shown as well. It needs to show that the Nazis were evil, and potentially that not all Germans were clean when it came to war crimes. Too many people these days are falling under that stupid mentality.
And 1 final problem is that it may just not make compelling gameplay. Video games and games in general all rely on one thing, winning. But the Germans didn't win.

It could be done, but the risk is very great, and if they end up attempting to dehumanise the enemy (especially the Soviets) by drawing attention to whats bad about them instead (a la CoH2) they'll get a lot of flak. So they'll need a good writer and a skilled director to not make it too forced, insulting or weak. It's been done on film, so chances are it can be done in games.

And, like I said, what developer would take the risk? The payout for the risk isn't any greater than the payout for a less risky endevor.

on end of the line developers want to sell the game , thats why we see very little games covering

Controvercies
Racial tensions
Discrimination
"bad" history(not proper word but i mean like Stalin killing bazillion of people , whole nazi thing and other history moments who are gruesome)

There are games who cover it tho

Witcher games covers a lot "why humans are bad" , witcher 3 is incredible example and what hits me lots of youtubers used to pick on it because of it...because it shown how real world is and they not liked it

Tough ♥♥♥♥ it sold so well...

But anyhow i dont think there will be any game any time soon who covers wermaht size "strugling with nazizm" i know history well , i know how many Germans knew truth , not liked it or even flat out despise it , but what you could do , ether german version of political officer would findout and leave you with suecide choice or you get a triel or accusation of being a "jew"

Having it in ww2 game would probably make amazing story , especially for game like sniper elite 5 where during enter he could flatout go rogue and assasinate hitler(that actualy almost happened but hitler survived the bomb blast in rela world)...but we wont see it

Sniper elite 5 will be same or similar character , killing evil nazist with testicle shots like it used to be

imagine we get women and we get boob shots or clam shots no wait...feminist would eat developers alive...oh boy

Political correctness

[WinterGale]

The first Sniper Elite had an American OSS agent in German uniform fighting the Russians, that's probably the closest you'll get in playing from the "German" perspective.

Also, Jonnydodger, I think the Company of Heroes German campaign didn't mention the Nazis because of legal ramifications in Germany and the fact that you're actually playing as two Waffen SS divisions (named the Panzer Elite in the game). That wouldn't bode well with the general public.

Finally, if the OP really wants to play from the German perspective, CoD 2 had a great mod with its own standalone campaign. I believe it was called Deutschland or something.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by WinterGale:

The first Sniper Elite had an American OSS agent in German uniform fighting the Russians, that's probably the closest you'll get in playing from the "German" perspective.

Also, Jonnydodger, I think the Company of Heroes German campaign didn't mention the Nazis because of legal ramifications in Germany and the fact that you're actually playing as two Waffen SS divisions (named the Panzer Elite in the game). That wouldn't bode well with the general public.

Finally, if the OP really wants to play from the German perspective, CoD 2 had a great mod with its own standalone campaign. I believe it was called Deutschland or something.

yeah , the "social sensitivity" goes so far, even if you portray nazist in "bad light and obviously the vilains" game would still not be able to be sold in countries like germany and few others

i know where germans are comming from as they want to be sure it does not happen again but it kinda defeats the purpose itself , as "history likes to repeat itself" , especialy if that history is ignored , not talked about , and just swiped under the rug

[WinterGale]

Originally posted by Varenvel The Spicy Dinosaur:

Originally posted by WinterGale:

The first Sniper Elite had an American OSS agent in German uniform fighting the Russians, that's probably the closest you'll get in playing from the "German" perspective.

Also, Jonnydodger, I think the Company of Heroes German campaign didn't mention the Nazis because of legal ramifications in Germany and the fact that you're actually playing as two Waffen SS divisions (named the Panzer Elite in the game). That wouldn't bode well with the general public.

Finally, if the OP really wants to play from the German perspective, CoD 2 had a great mod with its own standalone campaign. I believe it was called Deutschland or something.

yeah , the "social sensitivity" goes so far, even if you portray nazist in "bad light and obviously the vilains" game would still not be able to be sold in countries like germany and few others

i know where germans are comming from as they want to be sure it does not happen again but it kinda defeats the purpose itself , as "history likes to repeat itself" , especialy if that history is ignored , not talked about , and just swiped under the rug

Having just played Sniper Elite 4, I think this is a missed opportunity for the devs. The letters we get to read (those written by the German soldiers) and even the info we get about them when we tag them with binoculars does a great job in humanizing your enemies.

There were a lot of times when I purposely went out of my way to not kill a German soldier because when I tagged him I saw that he was very worried of leaving his son an orphan. There was also a soldier I shot and found a letter in his body telling his parents that he forgives them for something that they did to him, another letter I found in a dead soldier also was a confession for his feelings to a girl that he wasn't able to approach (now he won't get to have that chance). Another letter was basically a "death" letter soldiers write to their family in case they die.

These soldiers were also full of contradictions and complexities. There was this mission where a platoon of soldiers just massacred an entire town, but tagging them shows that some were conflicted by what they just did. Even the dialogue between two soldiers showed that they were struggling with their conscience and was trying to justify what they just did.

All those details basically paint these German ("Nazi") in a different light - it gives them humanity (complete worries, dreams, and desires) unlike the faceless meatbags we encounter in games like CoD, Velvet Assassin, Wolfenstein, etc.

However, I believe the effect would have been more profound had they retained Nazi iconography and insignia because that would have been more realistic and (dare I say), grounded.

[=CID= Silent_Threat]

Originally posted by panzermeyer32:

A German soldier was a soldier just like any allied soldier. Soldiers don't start wars - politicians do!
- I think it would be refreshing to see a game that didn't portray all germans as evil aggressors and all over bad, like every H$llyw$$d movie ever produced and all games has done up until now.

Not all Hollywood Movies portray Germans as Evil, Example "Schindler's List"

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by =CID= Silent_Threat:

Originally posted by panzermeyer32:

A German soldier was a soldier just like any allied soldier. Soldiers don't start wars - politicians do!
- I think it would be refreshing to see a game that didn't portray all germans as evil aggressors and all over bad, like every H$llyw$$d movie ever produced and all games has done up until now.

Not all Hollywood Movies portray Germans as Evil, Example "Schindler's List"

Not the best example.

[WinterGale]

Originally posted by Jonnydodger:

Originally posted by =CID= Silent_Threat:

Not all Hollywood Movies portray Germans as Evil, Example "Schindler's List"

Not the best example.

[panzermeyer32]

WinterGale: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=928787113

[WinterGale]

Originally posted by panzermeyer32:

WinterGale: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=928787113

Thanks!